Leo Duarte, Pierce Berke, and Joey Summa lay out the purpose of Tech & Business, then test that mission against the AI investment bubble, labor displacement, synthetic relationships, regulation, data-center expansion, geopolitical competition, and the strategic value of open-source AI.
Chapters
Can you bring your mic questions here?
Leo Tack? What's your name? Pierce?
Pierce?
Like Smackin. Wow, this is... I say this, this set definitely fits the vibe of our podcast a lot more.
Hello?
So, Mike etiquette. Right here. You go loud, push it away. So you know when someone's speaking, they're speaking like this, or they come closer to you, they have it like this, or they sit back, they have it like this. But if you go in loud, you want to pull it away from you?
Yeah.
That's all I don't want. We try to have the most consistent audio like you explained?
Yeah.
. .. We won't even.. The.. The.. and I know. .. ... .. .. I think just having that in, you know, having people recognize just what it's like to be in the studio, what it's like to have an engineer and what it's like to speak on things. So welcome everyone. This is the second tech and business podcast hosted by yours truly, Leo Duarte and Pierce Burke. Is there anything you'd like to kind of start off with, Pierce?
I'm excited. I'm excited for the return of tech and business. I'm excited for us to come back from our long-awaited hiatus and really hit the ground running tonight with a big statement piece and also the introduction of our third member who has yet to make his debut on screen Joey Summa.
Absolutely. So going on the subject matter of the podcast and why we're actually here today, obviously our first one went very well. It had a great positive reception. We had thousands of view across all. social media platforms and I myself I was very happy seeing the reception lots of discussion we want to provoke thought and we want to provoke questions we want to promote conversations I was interviewed obviously President Leo Duarte and I want to say going into the second one I would say that this is a podcast that set the tone for the rest of our podcast as Pierre said this is the statement piece that will allow us to give you guys why the reason why we're actually doing this the purpose of tech and business and why we're actually doing this, the purpose of tech and business and the nature of tech and business. So going upon that, tech and business is a fully non-profit newsletter slash podcast that was founded back in July, and the purpose of this is we want to eventually create a network and a platform for education on tech, education on business, and connect like-minded, ambitious students together in a place where they can speak to each other, and where we can learn from each other. also have connections with academia where we eventually want to have interviews with professors, we realize that we're on the precipice of one of the
largest revolutions in human history and our goal with tech and business is to push humanity forward. Our goal is to help the transition into this now intelligent age and with no sort of agenda, no sort of profit motive, no sort of profit incentive for us to to parrot any sort of goals or any sort of exterior motives. The agenda here is to educate. The agenda here is to make clear. The agenda here is for us to and our unique backgrounds and our unique skills, skills, talents, and what we can bring to the table and make those clear for everybody involved. So I guess we can start off by just going over who we are, our credentials, you know, who is Leo Duarte, who is Pierce-Bear,
I am a math, economics, and computer science major from Amers College, and I've had a lifelong interest in personal finance, finance on a more macro scale, and also artificial intelligence since a very young age, having started coding in Java and Python at age four, and then continuing that interest in technology and computer science with a science fair project on artificial intelligence and Google's deep mind and alpha fold, all the way back in 27. So it's been an absolute ride for me to witness all of the society altering introductions that artificial intelligence has made to overwhelmingly change everything that we know is conventional and traditional up to this point. I think that all three of my majors alongside a lot of the experience I have extracurricularly talking to people who are prominent in the field of artificial intelligence definitely prepares me to help bridge that. gap the tech and business aims to bridge between transformation and transformative events and misinformation because as we had said we don't have any type of profit motivations there is a lot of lot of deceptive and sly dissemination of information out there on the internet on the more conventional media platforms that that clearly have some type of ulterior motive. in the way that they're presenting all of these new tech events. technologies or there are alternatively other people proclaiming that
either super optimistic and claiming that in the immediate short term we're gonna have some type of paradise introduced by this new technology and there aren't going to be any measurable downsides or any difficulties with legislating this new technology when governments have historically been pretty slow at legislating new technologies or there are alternatively other people proclaiming that is going to bring the end of society as a new we know it and humans are going to lose their dominance over the technology that we create and many bad things will happen. However, we seek to provide a more reasoned, objective, and factual perspective in order to bridge that gap and help you curate all of that misinformation that is out there and being pushed onto you on the daily. Because obviously with this technology, we're seeing faster than ever before and it's hard to keep track of everything. It's hard to keep track. track of the well-reasoned and factual reporting of the most recent developments in artificial intelligence and we're here to bridge that gap and that's why I have a certain skill set that is well positioned to help deliver that message. But what about you Leah? What would you say qualifies you for this
position? Well absolutely and I'd say it's amazing being able to share this seat and this platform with someone genuinely experienced and with actual... and achievements in this field. So about me, I am Leo Duarte, as stated before. I am a startup founder. I've been running my company for over a year now, actually. I have graduated with my bachelor's in business management at the age of 20. I was the first in my class to do so. I have had a lifelong interest in business. And one of the biggest things that I do is pragmatically implement AI. and I've had this interest in perspective in computer science and software science and software science and software engineering. and just using artificial intelligence to the most that I can that I feel I could bring and I could help elucidate with everybody. I think that my goal here is to bring together everyone that I can, everybody that we have in our personal network to help with this goal and help inform and with me I'm actually the progenitor of this idea. I was the one who originally went to Pierce and suggested that we create this newsletter. I believe that both of us had this. voice. We both had these unique skill sets. And as we kind of continue with this, as we publish more frequently, as we kind of make more content available to all of you, obviously we're coming off of a three-month hiatus and I just
wanted to comment on that and say that just naturally between work, between school, we had to evolve and we adapted and we realized that this video content is a bit a bit more compelling than our articles for right now. Obviously from articles. It's not the a goal for us to just a good. could stop the newsletter. Our goal is to introduce pragmatic video first content through our platform so that people can learn from all ages, younger and older. Throughout any stage of life there is some way artificial intelligence can help you. However, I don't want to come on here and just be like, oh, this is this beautiful, amazing technology. I actually would like to more personally have these debates and discussions on the kind of proceedings of this. I have a, we have podcast scheduled with Ivy League students on these ethical issues and I think that it is a more interesting and obviously a perspective that we must hold and highlight the fact that, you know, these technologies have genuine drawbacks like environmental concerns such as job market concerns, economic concerns, and our job is to provide a perspective on all aspects. parroting or super positive unnecessarily positive kind of single psychopensy and what we're going to be doing between us too. So obviously this first kind of half hour of this podcast is going to be dedicated
between us and we're going to be speaking and going deeper into these topics and we're going to be honestly just giving you guys of course as we've given you our credentials and where we see this newsletter eventually becoming. I would say that this newsletter, the goal of it is to create a network. The goal of it is to connect others. We're positioned in the heart of New York City, the epicenter of pretty much the world, and we recognize that the location is going to be something that aids us. We aim to use our resources to the maximum leverage. And Peers and I are paying out of pocket for this. It's not something where I'm like, oh, you know, give us sympathy because we're paying out of pocket for everything. It's more so that me and him are both passionate to the point where we truly believe in the mission of this. We truly believe that we were given inherent gifts and talents that we must use. It is only morally correct for us to use these to actually bring people together. And I guess we can go into our roles personally, just contributing to the newsletter. I of course was responsible for beginning this. I'm responsible for booking the podcast. I'm responsible for bringing people together for bringing people together. have a large interest in programming and software that I've been, I've been programming for around three years now and obviously I'm at the frontier of
of kind of the impact of these models as obviously software engineering is a field directly impacted by how AI is evolving and I think that my perspective can help bring light to how AI is going to be used and how AI is currently being used and that that are predictions that have gone well so far if you want to speak about. of how you've predicted as well. We have a track record and obviously we're not perfect and this is going to be to the best of our ability. However, I do have a genuine mission in all of this. We do have a genuine intent and that's why we have chosen to keep this a non-profit. We've not chosen to, you know, make your viewers, you guys are not our product. The viewers here, we're not monetizing from you. the only product that we are sharing is straight education is straight education. and just genuine informed opinions, facts and perspective. And we want to provoke discussion. We want to eventually hold discussions and debates and forums and have educated people from all walks of life, all aspects of life, who are impacted in many sort of ways by this technology, artificial intelligence, that is shaping up to be in the same facet of another industrial revolution. I think this is a technology that's going to impact humanity. It is certainly here to stay. that no matter what you do, no matter where you go, AI is going to impact your life.
And that is a bet that I will hedge upon with my life. I feel that no matter what kind of happens here, AI is going to impact your life in some way, shape, or form. And staying on top of that and staying pragmatic as well is my goal with everything here. I would like to say, of course, that there's shining lights, flashing lights, obviously, and that we're showmen and we're showmen and we're you know, you know, you know, So we have an entertainment aspect of this as well, which I only feel is a benefit. I don't feel that anything will do is just for a comedic purpose or a comedic sense. We want to genuinely provoke rational discussion within all of this, and we want to genuinely just continue forward with our skill sets, our networks, our people around us, and just make this goal and further it between now and years from now. There is no kind of end-a-tech in business for right now. to do it and we're only going to continue to get better with it. We've had other obligations on top of this. But tech and business remains. And for everybody watching and for everyone who has watched, we appreciate you, genuinely. Because what we do here is from the pits of our heart. It's something that we hold dear to us. And we're going to continue to get better with it. And as we progress, as we evolve, I hope that you guys are along for the ride for the ride for the journey for the journey,
that this has been, founding a kind of a new venture. This is, Pierce is kind of, you have had entrepreneurial experience, but I would say that this is kind of superseded what you've done previously. Obviously I've ran businesses before and this is kind of my second real kind of business that I've ran. So I would like to say that it's a beautiful opportunity. and I feel blessed that I'm sitting on this chair right now with an an audience watching me, with an audience watching me, the ability to kind of give you guys my perspective and my voice. So, where would you like to continue, Pierce?
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we're definitely intent on keeping that educational aspect and that unbiased, unmotivated by ulterior causes aspect of our accessible reporting. And as well, while we are going to move away from the weekly releases of articles, we are hopefully in the future in the future going to be moving. towards quarterly seasonal releases of higher quality but less frequent article output. In order to still have some type of written presence, but as Leo had said, we think that in order to stay true to our mission and to reach the most people in our age group as possible, of all age groups, we're fed up with kind of like academia or more prestigious conventional reporting and media's tendency to kind of like like gate keep and promote certain complex topics in a way in which the average person can't understand because a lot of their marketing power lies in the fact that they have some type of expertise that gives them a better ability to explain a lot of these complex topics than the average person. But we're fully transparent and intent from the beginning on making everything that we discuss as accessible and reachable as possible and through pivoting to that short form content or that first content philosophy, we believe that we are more so aligning our actions with
that ultimate goal of reaching the most people possible and illuminating the most objective and factual information about such drastic and dramatic significant changes on our daily lives.
And that's beautifully said. And obviously it's our goals and our current purpose. We view it as a life purpose to continue with this. something that will continue to be deeply held within us. And we want to make these foundational beliefs very clear, very apparent as we have not had the opportunity yet to kind of go over these. So obviously establishing what the newsletter is and kind of what we're going to be speaking about today. Obviously we're going to go a bit more in depth on our conversation. We'd like to bring an economical, mathematical, financial, and business perspective on to recent developments within this field. that we'd like to go over, especially as we have our third co-host here, but just kind of continuing with applications of AI, I'd like to ask questions to the audience, like, you know, watching this podcast, hearing these two 20-year-old, just kind of speak about their experience. Like, AI has impacted you in some way, shape, or form. How do you stay on top of that? And how do you navigate this ever-changing landscape when you know, three years ago or two years ago now, we saw stuff like GPT, early GPT models? I remember I was in the classroom and my physics teacher used it to create class plans and he said it wasn't very good. Nowadays, two years progress has been made and I would say that AI has extreme educational application.
And I want to make that clear that I think that AI will genuinely build these equitable bridges for evolving education itself and for ensuring that any person under privilege or not has a personal tutor with contextual kind of background knowledge to who they are and and obviously we're at a point now where AI is hallucinating less and less. You know, just in the past month, we've saw four separate model releases. How do you stay on top of that as a normal average person who isn't very technologically evolved? know, maybe an average Gen X or baby boomer, like, who hasn't even gone on social media, like, how do you navigate that rapid evolution? And those are questions that we pose to ourselves and we realize that like, there is a kind of need for more better educational sources. And obviously we're kind of going on about, like, oh, this is going to be a great educational thing. and like, it's just kind of executing on that now. this rational discussion for everyone involved and for every viewer who has been watching this. I hope that you're able to take away a lot from this and I hope that you can value our perspective and I hope that we can come off as trustworthy as well, not just to come off as trustworthy but as a place of genuine authentic voice like our genuine authentic voice that we're trying to project to all of you.
Yeah, yeah, and exactly as you were saying like that is the question. average Gen X baby boomer person may be a little bit disconnected from technology to begin with not really working in a field in which it requires you to be super up to date with these super recent AI developments. The question is how do you navigate that? The only way if you aren't super invested and on top of the super technical releases and details is that all of this information is curated.
channels by all of these more conventional forms of media that have all of these investors and ulterior motives. And we are simply here trying to help you navigate all of these changes and help you have more agency in being a more informed consumer of all the reporting that is going on, that is deceptive and misaligned from your best interest out there today. And the more that we can provide to you, the more that you can be an informed consumer of all of the vast amounts of information that are being curated by people making decisions outside of your hands. and freedom to make your own informed decisions and critiques of all this information coming to you, the better we can achieve our message of increasing that accessibility and understanding of all of these developments happening around us.
I agree. And as we grow a platform, we'd like to use this for good. Obviously, I would like to bring ethical discussions. I would like to bring equitable discussions as well. As we kind of grow this, we intend to release this in multiple languages. to reach a global audience. We intend for this podcast to be viewed in Spanish, in Japanese, in French as well, and we want to continue this kind of global sense. We're like obviously countries develop at separate paces and this technology is going to impact every country. It's going to impact potentially leadership itself and management itself and the actual intricacies of that of that is something that we'd kind of like to share, like the actual inner workings of AI itself and understanding that from a neural network perspective, like how these LLLMs actually work, how we kind of progress, and how obviously we're looking at the elimination of a large percentage of human labor, and how do you even navigate that? How do we even deal with a job market when white collar jobs are being eradicated? How do you deal with your job? something you've worked in, let's say you're a software engineer, you've been working there 20 years, you see something like Opus 4.5 come out, score an 80% on the SWA bench, how do you even deal with that? How do you even deal with these kind of technologies that have like kind of transformed the way we think?
And obviously, like, there's many sort of questions and I don't feel like I'm the most well equipped to answer every question. question, but using and creating a platform and the purpose in that is to eventually bring every sort of perspective and obviously we are going to be bringing people at the frontier of AI itself and we are going to have them speak and we're going to have as many different people as we can get. So let's say you're like um with these kind of evolving models, let's say you're an individual who has trouble in the ongoing job market, we want to help and give tips and give tips and give advice and give advice and you know the parameters. We know what is actually being replaced, what isn't, what human aspect can still be kind of maintained. And obviously we want to keep that discussion going on maintaining the human aspect and sort of things such as art. Like you see something like graphic design and nano banana three being released just last week. Graphic design is likely as a field going to be very severely impacted as it's a lot cheaper to just get an AI to make that yourself. We want to provoke discussion on the ethics of that? What is the ethical and moral impact of a job displacement? Let's say a graphic designer who is being replaced by just an AI? Is there soul in
an AI art? Is there soul in kind of the furthering of that kind of aspect of this technology? And obviously we want to go more in depth. And I think purposely we're staying a little surface level just in the beginning of this podcast, just to give you guys a complete comprehensive overview of just the breadth of this And I take it upon myself, I do not stray away from challenges, you know that from the first podcast. And Pierce as well, I think is more than greatly equipped to help carry this out. And we realize we're 20 now. And this is a big thing for two 20 year olds to kind of go upon, but if anything, I think that's motivating. I think we are as zoomers just completely well equipped. We've seen AI itself grow upon us and I think we are in the greatest possible position possible position.
this information and knowledge, especially from a pragmatic perspective, as zoomers we've literally seen, A.I. kind of take over stuff like college where it's doing assignments now. You've seen stuff like how it's going into work itself, and we are the ones who have to deal with that. The graduating classes of 2026, 2027, 228 are going to be directly impacted by the furthering of this technology. And we want to be the ones who kind of speak about that, who can at least bring some light in some discussion and help people at least be informed with everything.
Certainly, certainly. And I'm definitely very excited for Joey to come in and provide a little bit of a financial aspect and perspective on some of the ways the larger markets as a whole have been changing recently. As we alluded to, we will be talking about the financial bubble with artificial intelligence and some of Michael Barry from the big shorts. statements such as deregistering his firm and definitely very excited for Joey to bring in his perspectives as well. We have connections between some of the brightest students in the world and we want to bring them and give them voices. I think empowering voices is another thing that this platform that is being created is going to be doing. I feel that there is a lot of students and a lot of talented people who simply aren't given an opportunity to kind of speak on this. It's like I think it's too hard to kind of be given relevant opportunities that aren't clouded again by these incentives and motives and investors, where we want to provide something independent of all of that, all of the hubris that you kind of have to deal with. And I think that there are many different perspectives that should all be kind of highlighted and should all be valued equally, obviously. And I think that at the end of the day, it's a mission that we're looking to kind of carry out.
and we are going to kind of have an entirely new website that I'm actually get that done and I think there are no better people to do it than us too and I think with the evolution of this newsletter as you guys will see we are going to have this podcast release on Friday and we are going to kind of have an entirely new website that I am actually developing so I hope you guys are looking forward to that there is nothing but progress being made and we are working on this very diligently aside from all of our commitments. Obviously we're looking still to expand our team to get other like-minded ambitious people and students to help us out with this and eventually we want to be known on a national platform on a national scale. I think there's no better place to do that than New York City. Definitely and this this is our statement piece and tech and business is here to stay very excited for the future. We're whether it's weekly podcast, a lot of exciting stuff to come, and we are here to stay. Absolutely. Just being here to stay, and I want you guys to have at least some confidence in us, and the consistency at what we can kind of release us at, we had a hiatus, we've had momentum, we've had issues, and we go past those, we overcome the challenges that are kind of presented to us. And obviously, like, we have our own issues and we have our own kind of shortcomings
and fallbacks and drawbacks. However, it's navigating those drawbacks and challenges and continuing to execute at an excellent level and to just actually genuinely provide good fucking content. That is what we're looking to do. And I will never stray away from any sort of conversation or debate. I want to make it known that we are completely transparent in our dealings. All aspects are being covered. Everything, the negatives, the drawbacks, some people hate AI. Obviously, some people despise this technology and fear it. We want to give those people a voice to voice express their concerns and to make sure and ensure all aspects of this are being covered.
Certainly, certainly. Definitely a very interesting slate of topics that we've alluded to today that we'll only get into more so once Joey comes in. But yeah, I guess essentially we're just looking for a fraction of the same type of commitment from you guys, our audience, as we have in this message and this purpose and this mission. And so if we can sell you guys even maybe an a hundredth of the commitment and buy-in that we are to this message, that would mean the world to us and we'd really appreciate it, especially in these earlier stages of the entire tech and business network.
Absolutely. So as we kind of continue on our co-host Joey is going to be here very soon and we're going to get very deep. I think the first kind of discussion we want to have is on the AI bubble. And I think that it's a topic that economics economists and obviously these legacy brands and media have covered, but I feel that they miss the more pragmatic understanding of AI and how it is going of AI and how it is going of AI and how it is going to a way of AI and how it is going to a that's going to actually impact the world. I think, as Pierre said, I think that the immediacy of the short-term benefit is overstated. and what does that mean for the job market? And giving our perspectives, our informed perspectives on that to help you guys who obviously are dealing with this job market, understand kind of how stuff is going to be continuing and proceeding. That is our goal. So I think with everything being said, I think we should invite Joey on to come in and the man himself. We all guys. How you doing, bro.
Can't leave them here, but just sit by.
Yeah, kind of the overview of the whole mission, where we're trying to build all that. Yeah, all that. Okay. Yeah. And so I guess, I guess we can go straight into talking maybe a little bit about the AI bubble and what have some of your thoughts been recently on some of the statements. Actually, I think before we have that discussion, I'd like for yourself to introduce yourself. Oh, yeah, the viewer should know who you are and what.
Yeah, so for those of you who don't know me, Joey Sum, a junior currently, a Sarah Q, a finance, a finance, a finance, a joint tech. finance major. I joined tech and business back in July when Leo reached out to me about this opportunity. I was doing an internship at the time, was getting super into business and finance and all these different trends going on. And I just all be a cool opportunity to take on and here I am now. It's an honor to be in the studio finally with you guys super excited to see what we have in store for the rest of this podcast. So what are some of our conductuals? Like where do you go to you go to you go to college and what are you go to college and what are you go to college and what are you go to college and what are you go to go to go to college and what are you go to go to go to go to go to college and what are you know? even studying? Like how have you personally been kind of like preparing and studying and being you know able to give your perspective on this? So I feel like my story is really interesting because I wasn't always interested in a business at all really. I've always been interested in a business at all really. I've always been into the gym. I've always been into the gym. I thought I was originally going to go to college for exercise science,
maybe open my own gym someday, kind of that entrepreneurial side of it because my dad runs a small-run a small-run runs a small business, runs a small business, business so that was always something that appealed to me. But I took AP macroeconomics my senior year of high school and that class really changed my perspective on a lot of things really got me interested in at least the macro environment to start before I knew it I was doing my own research on stocks and all kinds of things like that and that's why I originally went in as an econ major disarice but once I got into this more sort of finance oriented side I transferred into the business school from Marsden sciences and Beautiful.
So let's kick off the discussion on the AI bubble. Yeah, I guess what are some of your first impressions of how the market has reacted to Michael Barry's initial tweet?
It's so interesting to me because when you have someone who's made claims in the past, bold claims that have actually been correct, and he comes out now and says something with that much weight, that alone is going to really provoke a lot of a lot of... reaction out of a lot of people and that's what's absolutely happening.
Yeah so for those of you who haven't maybe heard of Michael Barry Christian Bales the actor's character in the movie The Big Short is portraying this guy Michael Barry who didn't come from a conventional finance background he was actually a doctor and then on the side at night he was doing research into his own and eventually ended up figuring out. that there were all these shaky subprime mortgages being sold to people during the housing crisis and that there was about to be a collapse of the housing market over a year before it had actually happened. And so he's super well known for his very unorthodox and accurate predictions usually of a lot of these unforeseen financial phenomena. And recently he had similarly said that due to a lot of these shady accounting practices, a lot of this over exaggeration and high-exation. and a lot of this circular debt and funding between a lot of these companies at the top of the AI industry, there should be a little bit more hesitancy and a little bit less kind of like unfounded confidence behind these companies due to all of these faulty practices and hiding of profit and over reporting when they shouldn't be. to be. And so we've seen a very interesting series of events. We've seen the video stock kind of tumble a little bit in the past couple weeks, partly influenced by Michael Barry's statements.
We've seen Open AI and Palantir have some horrible, harsh kind of reactions from a lot of media sources and a lot of the public, and just like an increased general kind of like scrutiny on a lot of these companies and their practices as of late.
I think the video is probably the most interesting case in my opinion at least because they're really at the forefront of all of this and yet there's so much like you said the circular funding investing in these companies that produce the software so they buy more chips and it keeps going on and on and that's I think what's going to tell the whole story going forward is what happens with with the video like that is the peak of this all in my opinion. provider and obviously with their stock kind of going forward it's going to set the tone for the market itself and I think it's going to have great second-order effects on kind of how AI is going to be impacted and continue to be profitable within all of this. So my personal prediction is that AI is not going to hit a wall. I think it's going to continue to evolve the way it has been. the way it has been. However, I would say that there is great things to be said by the overhyping and I would say like, over excitement to integrate this, as in the early stages you're seeing these AI, like these companies, create bespoke AIs in scenarios where there's no need and there's unnecessary spending, unnecessary hype and misunderstandings that have kind of transpired and have led to this increasingly growing bubble that I think Honestly, I feel we'll, I think we will see some sort of downturn in kind of AI and its acceleration itself.
However, the technology itself is going to continue to progress and continually get better. I think it's kind of undeniable that I think AI has only continued to have more use cases. But I think the use cases that have kind of expired, like, let's say a company has made their own AI and there's no reason for it to kind of... exist as frontier models are more than capable of doing and providing those same tasks. I think we're going to see those kind of die out and I think we're only going to see the markets kind of continue the way as they have been. And I'm curious obviously on kind of furthering discussion and continuing to kind of make predictions from our informed perspectives as well.
In terms of who I think will. actually be successful long term. I really think there's in terms of this bubble this whole bubble thing there's a huge difference between the established tech giants that have the infrastructure that have the resources that have the scalability to implement this effectively long term versus these startups that are just claiming they have some niche carving out they're doing that are providing some unique benefit because Microsoft Google Apple is running a Apple is running a little behind her now, but I think long term those companies are all going to be fine. What I think where I think this bubble is and what I think people should be more speculative about are the palantiers are the Robin hoods are the companies like that that have benefited from this sort of spike here, but are not really at the forefront of the actual infrastructure behind what's driving the growth if that makes sense.
Yeah, definitely. And I mean like bringing it back to the circular funding. funding conversation topic like there are yeah there are a lot of companies like Palantier like open AI that kind of like have these parasitic relationships with these large firms that are more established like the apples the Google's the Microsoft's and they kind of need to rely on these companies in order to have the infrastructure capabilities possible to deliver on these like growth metrics that they're trying to portray to their investors during all their earnings reports or or anything like that and there like that there. and that is something that should be I think definitely a little bit of a cause for concern. And I do think some people are kind of jumping the gun a little bit. Because also like contextually if you think about something like the dot com bubble thinking about like the asymmetry and information with something like the development and like the proliferation of the internet, the amount of uncertainty that we had discussed in the previous 40 minutes and the amount of asymmetric information between a lot A lot of these like consumer finance people, a lot of these regular retail investors, even a lot of these hedge funds is definitely significant. And the fact that there is that much of a asymmetry and information will inherently lend itself to a huge speculative bubble,
like what we're seeing right now. And it is hard to kind of have accurate evaluations in the present moment of how valuable some of these smaller companies that aren't as established are genuinely. And it is in a lot of people's best interests to portray these companies, obviously the founders, people like Sam Altman, as more valuable than they actually are. And then we end up seeing a lot of these kind of fraudulent practices, like we see even the video kind of falsely reporting that some of their data centers or some of their GPUs are going to be. lasting a year, a half year, two years longer than they actually will until they depreciate so that they can over-report their profits. And when there's so much asymmetric information it's prime opportunities for these companies to take advantage of that and to exploit their more specific details about their accounting or their profit margins in order to capitalize.
What would you think about that? I think that's very greatly said and two topics that topics I'd actually like to touch upon are this rise in growth of startup culture, founder culture, that has been proliferated by the increase in AI and obviously making bets and this is a great part of the bubble of the fact that like startups themselves have become a more compelling and attractive opportunity for students, for founders, for people of all sorts of ages trying to get their trying to get their messages out and I would say that like I think is enabling a lot of these different frontier forward in many different fields and aspects of kind of that. And we're definitely seeing a lot more investments. I think a thing I'd like to touch upon is Project Genesis, the recent multi-billion dollar kind of project announced by President Trump and the grand investments that we're kind of seeing into this technology that is going to have a genuine and noticeable impact on the way we kind we kind of live our lives and staying on top of that is kind of something I'd like to talk about and kind of discuss how it's like living in a world that's just ever evolving. It's kind of a lot for some kind of individual to handle. So obviously, you know, navigating artificial intelligence and navigating the evolution of it is a goal of this.
However, I like to post questions to you too and again for the audience on how you can still stay in-in-for-for-
like how you can stay on top of these news outlets, how you can stay on top of these developments, and the ever evolving nature of this technology.
Well my opinion, I think a huge thing is not just reading and researching and figuring out how you can use AI, because it's one thing to do that, and then it's another thing to actually use it. I think it's something that not enough people do in the sense. that not enough people learn by doing it, if that makes sense. You need to actually use it for like random things, like, oh, like, let's make a recipe, let's do this, like, you use it to complete these random tasks, and by that you get a better sense of like how you can actually communicate with it as a whole. That's why I'm so fond of it personally.
Yeah, definitely. Specifically, like, just one example of many would be, like, in the educational sense, what we were talking about earlier, I feel like a lot of people kind of expect artificial intelligence to, like, be this, like, wonder technology, and immediately, no matter what the prompt is that you provide it, or you can use it to, like, fully do all of your homework instead of maybe asking, , guiding questions, and using it as more of an informative. idea in their head of what the current capabilities are and because everything is moving so quickly it's hard to stay up to date with that stuff other than the fact that you just have to engage with it and use it in order to have an idea in your head that's up to date of what its boundaries are what its current capabilities are and how to best engineer prompts and how to best extract the most value out of it and that only comes from interacting with it. are through reading just like you had said, you really just have to use it and understand through first-hand experience what its boundaries are, what its upper limits of its capabilities are, and then you'll truly have a more informed perspective how it affects your own daily life.
And I'd like to just mention and note that a lot of my content going into this newsletter is going to be how I personally kind of leverage this and how you can kind of grow from that and learn from that as from that as well. Like obviously we've engaged with AI as individuals on a much larger scale than most people. And I think bringing that kind of experienced knowledge and wisdom that we kind of possess is going to be a large theme of this newsletter going forward. Let's say in an application sense, just educational wise, that I've used this to learn stuff like software engineering. I've learned this to you. I've used to learn other languages and how I actually do that.
the parameters and also its shortcomings. I think a big thing as well is um let's say usage of the like people something like the model clot itself like people don't know stuff like sonnet 4.5 even exists. However yeah absolutely but like I would definitely say like um the just having that as a learning guide asking me guiding questions has been one of the greatest learning experiences that I've had like I've obviously had experience in traditional university in a great high school that we all went to and obviously online as well and I would say that my greatest teacher that I've had to this day as crazy as it sound as it sounds is AI and having that personal tutor that understands how I learn understands how I work and how I like to set goals and then kind of transposing that to people watching this the viewers who are watching this recognizing that you can have this futuristicistic tutor who knows you can have this futuristicistic tutor who knows you inside and tutor who knows you inside and out, who knows how you learn, and you can use this to learn whatever you would like. I think it's only going to get better. I think the educational capacity is only going to increase. We're only going to see this continue to be used in schools. I think schooling itself, education itself, is in for not really a root awakening, not necessarily, but it's in for a dramatic transformation.
transcriptions on how to actually complete them effectively. I would say that obviously people are using it, misusing it, I would say, to write assignments. However, I would bring light to the fact that this is one of the greatest ways to sum a task and then have actionable advice on how to practically execute on that. I think the personal assistant aspect is something I'd like to bring a lot of light to and a personal manager aspect as well. AI has kind of helped me kind of stay on track on track of my own life and my own. studies, my own learning, I think it was a big reason as to why I was able to accelerate my degree, having concepts broken down and explained to me, having the ability to ask many sorts of questions, also the fact that like I wasn't ever one to kind of ask many questions to schools in school or anything, I wasn't very engaged. However, I think having the kind of private aspect to that, having the ability to one-on-one interact with that has brought the ability to one-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-on-one interact with that interact with that, interact with that, interact with that, that has really brought a huge element into my own personal learning has has brought the ability to ask as many sort of questions and it's also brought you know hours of studying I can go on for you know from one to ten obviously
within model usage limits I can't do that at school I think I think it's going to be something that is going to definitely transform like it's its knowledge now is comparable let's a professor. like that's a professor. to radically transform, I think, education itself. And I want to make my platform a place where people can learn, obviously, and learn how to learn as well. Absolutely.
I totally agree with that thing. That statement you made about companionship in a way, and how you can use it for so much more than you really know before you try it. Like, if I asked ChatGBTBT right now, like, describe me in three sentences, day actually and it was like shockingly accurate. It just shows you like if you're willing to put in the work towards like, this sounds weird because it's not a person, but developing a relationship with AI in a way, in a way that you can use in most effectively for your goals, it will dramatically transform how you go about everything. And of course, relationship wise, I think an interesting topic that I'd like to bring up is actually AI companionship itself and obviously, in a way where people are developing relationships with AI, I'd like to bring up Awni, I'd like to bring up, I believe, Maven is her name. The fact that people are developing these kind of parisocial relationships with chat bots, they're starting to begin to feel emotions, I would like to bring light to people who have actually kind of progressed themselves in that way, who have chosen to eliminate themselves kind of from the dating pool and to kind of, romantic relationship with AI itself,
think that's such an interesting topic to myself. Like it's almost dystopian. It's almost like in the movie her where you have this like almost image of a romantic partner and people are genuinely proceeding with that. There they're interfacing with it as if it was a person and companies are benefiting from it. Like a big part of X A I is actually kind of making in bringing that companionship aspect. That companions. obviously in the form of ex-companions and we're having people you know develop relationship with bots. I mean I'm curious to see how that technology is going to play out and how these parasocial relationships will eventually kind of bridge into reality as robotics kind of increase and accelerate but but obviously that's kind of its own aspect and it's almost controversial to speak about like you know people have AI girlfriends like yeah I mean I personally never would do that. It's crazy because we're like so still in this inventory. of this technology and this is already happening. It's just wild to me. Like I'm curious how you guys feel about that same point.
Yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely, it's definitely kind of insane to see like all of this science fiction like literature and media like come into real life in some extent. And I guess like, it just shows like, I feel like independent of artificial intelligence, there's kind of like an overwhelming sense of like a looming in authenticity and kind of like straying away from these human aspects of everyday life. We've been seeing obviously the proliferation of parasocial relationships in terms of content and social media for the past couple years now. and this I think is kind of just like a natural kind of next evolution of next evolution of... The internet simultaneously connecting people but also isolating people and for people that have for some reason or another kind of like dejected themselves from the overall dating pool or desire to find companionship or love with another human. I guess this provides these people some type of relief or ability to kind of isolation and loneliness. But obviously at the same time, as is with any new technology, we're also seeing a lot of people unfortunately abusing artificial intelligence in that respect, kind of tying a lot of their mental health to something that is not obviously a human whatsoever, and we're seeing a lot of negative consequences from that. But I think this kind of just comes along with the broader issue
with artificial intelligence in terms of asking the question of how we properly regulate such a quickly evolving technology when federal government and other world governments have historically kind of had a lot of trouble keeping up to date and and actively kind of like urgently passing legislation as new technologies arise. We still kind of don't have the best regulation at least in the United States of the internet as a whole let alone there being any chance that with a new technology like that with a new technology like artificial intelligence that grows much faster than anything related to the internet, that it will be difficult to kind of imagine at least the federal government adequately legislating something like that, but there obviously should be more conversations across disciplines, not just within computer science, but also with people within politics, about how to best ensure that this technology isn't abused and exploited to people's detriment.
upon like appropriate legislator, appropriate guardrails and appropriate, let's say, leadership and kind of maintaining and straying away from a potential technocratic oligarchy to where the owners of this technology have this power or unfounded power and I think it's very important that we continue to have conversations on the important guardrails, on kind of just owning this technology and of just owning like this technology and facilitating it in different sorts of aspects. One thing I would like to touch upon is AI and it's kind of almost understanding of human emotion and how it's going to impact fields such as therapy, such as psychiatry. I personally think that people are going to be turning to AI for self-help, for evolutions of themselves, for exploring themselves, and I think it's going to be an interesting use case to kind of follow along with. I totally agree and like you
said earlier that there's that kind of separation from talking to a person. You almost feel like you're talking to to the same. You have that freedom to be more open. to be more expirational to be, to just say what you actually want to say because there's no pressure there really. And I think that's going to really drive a lot of changes in those fields like you talked about, for sure.
And I think appropriate guardrails are more than important to continue to push for it. I would like to make an example of the more recent model Grok 4.1. It has pretty much no guardrails or restrictions in the content that you can actually create with it. about these generative models than that have no restriction that can generate the most abhorrent kind of story.
I absolutely will. I absolutely will. I mean like just kind of asking 4.1 as soon as it came out, this was around last week, you know, what are your guardrails? And there is no guardrails. Like let's say if I was going to make or I was going to make a great. Bisceral, brutal content and stories involving This is just a rock. Yes.
Well, yeah, I mean, you don't need to experiment with Rock or ask it, you know, you don't need to push it for limits. That's what we're here to do for you guys. But I think it's very important that we continue a discussion on like where is the stopping point? What should AI be able to write about? to be able to write be able to write about? and what makes that distinction. distinction. What actually constitutes creating a limit in terms of what can be discussed and what can't be? Because there is kind of an abstraction of the morals that kind of go into that. How do you actually kind of start to discuss or create these moral guardrails that should be in place? Or should there even be moral guardrails in place? You know, should we allow these models to continue completely uncensored? I know that...
Grok 4.1 is completely uncensored. I know that the Imagine model before October 15th was also completely uncensored as well. But, you know, we're going to go into a world where you're going to have open source uncensored models between now and the near future, what is the type of content that's going to be generated and how do we genuinely put guardrails on this? And, you know, like, do we stop Do we stop at, is it should be dead people? Should it be like, do we don't make content of living people? Or of people themselves? I think SORA had a pretty inspiring way of doing it where you had to personally upload yourself and everything else was kind of pre-generated or not a real person. But stuff like rock and prior to its guardrails being put in place, you could generate anything. and that is a kind of terrifying reality where any other ability to paint. And I think going forward, I think you genuinely have to bring light to all sorts of conversations about that. I think it's very important you don't stray away from what can be generated and what shouldn't be generated and the benefits of generating, you know, whatever. I think it's really scary that you can just upload a photo of me, you can take a screen cap of this podcast right now and, you know, make me blow up or something. Like, where do you even begin to a...
to have the moral discussion of the implications of the technology itself? It is a tricky question and it definitely extends to kind of potentially even more dangerous and risky use cases like I know we had seen recently that Opus 4.5 had been used by a group of inexperienced coders in order to launch a full-scale like type of DDOS attack. I forgot what the specific organization was that they launched I forgot what the specific organization was that they launched it upon, but it was just interesting that with minimal coding knowledge, a group of people were able to fully kind of like guide Claude through allowing them to do all of these different types of tasks that change that while any of them in isolation wouldn't necessarily raise any alarm bells, chain together, all of these separate tasks were allowing them to like some type of penetration attack on another organization.
And so then it also begs the question like, how should we be monitoring people's interactions with all these models and how can we truly ensure that people aren't using these models for nefarious reasons? Because now we're kind of asked the question of like, how do we discern what is legitimate and genuine and real versus what is created by these models and kind of just indesernable from real life. a very upsetting and disconcerting type of conversation that we're going to have in the future that we need to have about how to regulate all of these technologies.
And a big kind of development recently with Gemini 3.0 and nano banana pro, their new image model, I have seen some fascinating images. I've seen some images kind of indiscernable from reality as you've said. I think keeping people informed on tailmarks. AI generated kind of imagery and visuals is extremely important. I think that you can easily fool easily fool or gullible people with with AI images and it's like it's only going to get better. Like how do you discern from I love this hypothetical scenario that I've seen kind of played around with where like you know what if someone in court you know generates a video of me shooting someone and then it's actual evidence. I don't think we're just there yet. but that's something that's going to kind of come to fruition and I think that continuing conversations and obviously we're asking So many questions here and obviously we're students, we're ambitious and we're, you know, curious people. I think that these questions are the heart of this newsletter and obviously us ourselves may not have the answers to everything. And I think having the questions themselves and being able to ask them to people at the frontier of this technology, that is going to be the goal in the heart of this newsletter. As I think rational discussion needs to continue to be had between all sides and all aspects and all aspects.
We're only going to continue to progress ourselves with these fascinating kind of interviews and questionings from people that have actual, let's say, firsthand experience with how this technology is shaping the world.
Certainly, yeah, I mean, like, definitely very excited for a lot of interesting interviews to come. We're definitely trying to like promote and market more on our own individual campuses and hopefully try to get some of our professors on to speak about some of these. topics, but more importantly, some startup founders and some people within the industry of artificial intelligence, within business, within finance, that can talk to their first hand experience like you were saying. So a lot of exciting stuff to come in the future for share.
We seek to cover all aspects of this as well and our skill sets are uniquely kind of tailored to that where I can bring the kind of business aspect, you know, using it in my own personal businesses.
I'll give some anecdotal experience now that like when I was building my business a lot of it was kind of parlaid through AI where I had asked is this a strategic move is this optimal use of my Resources and giving a contextual knowledge and also actually genuinely helping with client relationships, especially obviously that now I run my business by myself. I think that a business aspect to this and and obviously since I've negotiated of closed deals I think that I could bring that kind of business aspect and we also as well could bring that kind of business aspect and we also as well between us three we have an economical a mathematical as well appears to if you'd like to go on about your mathematical kind of knowledge and as well a financial perspective as you know Joey has had internships in New York you know Joey has actual um first-hand experience working in these kind of capital markets and you know obviously one of the most attractive job opportunities in the world and in terms of finance and if you would kind of like to share more about that. you guys would kind of like to share more about that.
Yeah, I guess that would be an interesting natural segment, segue into a next part of our conversation. I guess, Joey, what were some of the more interesting, like marker reports you had done, and what were some of the direct impacts you had seen in your internship this past summer of AI on your daily workflow? Could you talk a little bit about that?
Yeah, so it was really interesting, like the second day in the internship, like the internship internship, like the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
now, but I want you guys to do a presentation on how you would integrate AI into this team by the end of the internship. For a second, it was like kind of weird. Why is he asking us this? Can he just like figure out himself? But then we got thinking like, were the tech savvy generation, were the ones who grew up with all this change, were the ones who have experienced it first-hand more so than any other generation alive right now? And seeing someone that really values that really values, really values that really values that perspective really changed my mind and let me know that we are going to be the people that determine how this is used, how it's regulated, what its implications are, the moral questions, everything Leo was talking about, it's up to us, it's up to us, in the end, and that really kind of confirmed that there, that whole experience.
Yeah, yeah, no, definitely like, I mean, that is really like, that's also definitely super empowering though, like, like, we are kind of like at the forefront of the forefront of this. new like cutting edge of society and that's why it's extremely important and and even more necessary that we make it our responsibility as a generation as young people entering into the workforce entering into our adult lives that we stay as up-to-date as possible so we are able to make those informed decisions and provide our opinions when asked like you had been asked on the internship how to to inform older people who might not be necessarily as socialized or familiar with integrating these technologies into their daily lives? What are the best practices? What should we avoid? And how to best implement these technologies into our daily lives? I think socratic discussions on this are paramount and obviously it's a fascinating experience that you've shared with us that you yourself were asked and I'm certain that they took genuine advice from you.
that it's a global phenomenon. It's a worldwide phenomenon and it's going to be kind of up to us as the generation that is the most directly impacted in our careers, in our jobs, in our schooling, in our lives with AI to continue and to progress those conversations. I think a big perspective and a big thing that I'd like to highlight is, again, the all aspects kind of aspect where tech, business, finance, and as well the mathematics going by the mathematics going behind into it. I'd like to give Piers an opportunity to kind of share his mathematical knowledge kind of going into us in that background that you've had to where like, obviously neural networks require lots of math and that's inaccessible to a large portion of people who either don't have the quantitative skills required to comprehend the kind of tasks that are kind of done there. Or, you know, like, how do we bridge that gap? to understand AI works the way it does, but how do we bridge and get you closer to understanding how LLLM's actually compute and calculate and actually perform their actions?
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So I mean, I, as I had stated previously, I've had lifelong experience in coding, programming, computer science, as well as an interest at least for the past 10 years in artificial intelligence, starting with my science fair project on neural networks, back in middle school, but I think another interesting upcoming branch of content from tech and business is going to be a plan to produce educational content. And so given the fact that especially in college I mean I've taken many many 400 level classes relating to like the deep theoretical and technical like intricacies of the math of artificial intelligence and the math of theoretical statistics for for example right now I'm taking a class. at a graduate level called Advanced Econometrics. And the whole class is about theoretical statistics and the theoretical statistics behind economics and then similarly how that also ties into how prediction has developed across machine learning and artificial intelligence. And I would definitely seek to try to illuminate with only the most pressing and important topics in a very accessible way, how some of this math works, so that we can kind of remove a lot of that gatekeeping, referring to within academia because the truth is a lot of the money that academia makes is based on the consumer people willing to try to apply to
college and pay for that tuition their belief that they need college and they need this conventional pathway in order to understand these very complex and difficult topics. But the truth is that that's simply not the case. and I believe that with a full-fledged effort to provide a... educational content in the future. I can definitely try my best to share all of the valuable information through the theoretical foundations of computer science class, through the AI class that I've taken through multiple projects that I've made, through my advanced econometrics class. My goal would be to share a lot of the valuable information I've learned at one of the most prestigious colleges in the country. The number one often swaps out with Williams number two, but number one or two, liberal arts college out of 500 in all of the United States of America consistently ranked amongst the top 50 colleges in the world Amherst College. So my goal as I had said would be to try to distill only the most important and accessible and relevant information from those classes so that you yourself can also have some type of better understanding of the actual technical details of how these large language models encode all of this verbal written information into numbers and interpret it all of the complex math that shouldn't be so gate kept and kind of veiled in this guise of difficulty so that the people
that the people who do have the information can continue to make profit of the people who don't, the goal would be to try to bridge that gap between this transformation and all of the misinformation out there.
I think one of the largest goals that we have is the complete removal of gatekeeping when it comes to this. You should not have to pay for any source. You should not have to pay for any sort of media outlet to give you information that should be open source in public. Open free public and that is our goal through our platform to provide those kind of free experiences to provide the free education That can help anyone that can help everyone pretty much There will be no barriers to entry. There will be no courses that we sell. There will be no Let's say bullshit kind of course selling or peddling like you see people like even like Klaas Schwab opening up academies and online courses I think that there should be no sort of paying required to get the frontier of this knowledge itself. I think that continuing this as a nonprofit is paramount to all sorts of our goal. And I would say that like we want to become a leader and the educational aspect of this that I feel like there's no one real resource where from start to finish you can understand this technology itself. And obviously, tech and business is tech and business. It's not tech and business. And AI being a large and crucial aspect of that, of course. aspects and through reals through all three of us being individual anchors and playing to our own strengths
kind of going into our own our own kind of contents. I think there's a lot more to come a lot more exciting things to come and I will say that obviously between Pierce is complete like impressive artificial intelligence background I think we have the education required to be the ones that carry this mission out and we're going to be doing a lot of firing and missing and missing and and shooting again and hitting the target, which is a lot of what we did in the beginning where we didn't understand fully the vision that we had to do. We didn't understand tech and business and its meaning and its intrinsic meaning and what we could bring to it. Now there's a lot more clarity. Now there's a lot more, this is what I'll do, this is what he'll do. deal do. And I think that's going to only make itself apparent as we continue to grow and we continue to evolve and we continue to play to our own strengths. And I'm very excited to carry this out genuinely. I think everybody watching has already gotten at least some sort of takeaway from the discussions that we've been having and we still have a good amount of time less so I'm really excited to continue these discussions. I will say, obviously as the founder, there is a good amount of... pressure. I think navigating through that pressure and obviously the emotional kind of strength required and willpower is something that I possess and I
would like to kind of give lessons on that as well. I would like to personally in my own content and I'm going to be making a lot of business content and I want younger founders, newer founders, from all walks and aspects of life, to be empowered. I think empowerment is a large theme that we're going to be touching upon. I think that with my own experience knowledge and ability to teach that I will be teaching all sorts of aspects of business. Obviously sales like how to negotiate and close your first couple deals. That's kind of gonna be the roadmap for my own content. I think that I will also bring on my coach and mentor Diego Barrera to speak on business itself and I have a good amount of connections through my network on business and I want to bring business people and bring their perspectives on just. and obviously AI, we're at the precipice of a lot of evolution and navigating that is going to be our goal and we will make sure that stuff is clear and it gets clearer and it continues to become clearer. And I'd like for you guys to kind of go over what you intend intend on progressing and your kind of roadmap for evolving your own role and evolving your own sort of content with this kind of field. This is something that should be fully accessible accessible. it's going to be closed off to select few who have the whatever it takes to access that
What I want to do is kind of similar to what you said. I just want to bridge that gap. I want to show how I use it, show how it's transformed my personal life every single day and just give practical tips to do so.
Yeah, definitely. And as I was saying, alongside the seasonal releases, that will continue to be having quarterly, of this year at the end of winter. Definitely really excited to continue with a lot of hard-heading interesting interviews with prestigious and experienced people at the forefront of all three of those fields as well as a lot of that really interesting and valuable educational content that will be come in your way as well in the next couple of weeks. I'm very excited to see how this continues to grow and obviously, for a good-heating, I understand that for a good-hitting. for such a large goal, I think we're going to require a large amount of manpower in people. And I look forward to introducing more sorts of guests and characters for all of you guys to learn from. We already have a couple interviews lined up for the future and going pretty deep on the topics that we want to go into. We'll have a lot to come. And obviously as tech and business grows into itself as a media brand, we want to grow our voices and we want to grow our and we want to ensure that people understand what we're talking about.
And I think that such an opportunity is very dear to myself, where I am the one directing and obviously I'm responsible for infrastructure and design. I'm actually developing the new website as well. I think having that opportunity present to myself is very, very like humbling, I'll say. It's obviously, there's a lot more discussion. to be had and a lot deeper discussion to be had. And I want tech and business to be a place where, you know, an average person can just turn this podcast on and already be kind of updated on the newest kind of developments and understand how they can, they themselves can navigate with, with how everything has been kind of going on.
Yeah, for me this is huge because this actually gives me a platform to share what I think what I think, what I know because I was just known like as the guy writes on LinkedIn way too much in the past who has all these opinions about things but never really had a place to go out there and really share them fully and be completely open so that's what I hope to bring to this team here. And obviously building upon a Joey I think that this is something applicable to many different people. I think that we will have people across the nation working on this and obviously I make that offer open to anyone listening now if you're open to anyone listening now if you're willing to have your voice be heard if you want to share something, some sort of info, knowledge, tip, advice, then we'll make that platform open to you. I think keeping things open and accessible is paramount to the goal itself. And I think that like continuing with the podcast and everything and as we grow and as we evolve and as we continue to get better with what we speak about. I think there's only going to be more stuff to look to look forward.
to and a growing kind of scope of brands that we're going to be touching upon and hopefully connecting with and networking with and bringing straight directly to you guys for your own learning pleasures. There's a lot to go over as well, obviously that we have available to us and we're going to continue to kind of go through with those. We're going to follow through with our goal. stay tuned there's going to be a really big release as I just mentioned this winter. A lot of interesting more effort going into a lot more research rather than what you may have seen in the past with the weekly releases in in moving to more of this like editorial style quarterly format. I think that we're just going to be able to to raise the quality of our writing by that much more and be able to put so much more preparation into the quality of the articles that will be put in the articles that will be put in the articles that will be put in the articles that we'll be put in.
there and so definitely stay tuned. Could we pause? All right. I'll start off. It's really interesting when the video right now because of the new Google TPUs. I forgot what the T stands for, something processing unit obviously, but they're made to handle AI workloads more so than like any other chip we've seen on the market right now. Something really interesting is there's this one hedge fund I followed, code-2-2 management, random by this guy named fund I followed called Co2 Management ran by this guy named Philippe Lafont. I have the privilege of hearing him speak last summer actually at UBS during the internship. He did like a chat a bunch of the teams went there and my team went there. Listen to him speak a little bit about kind of his whole thoughts on the AI market and all of this. And he developed this list called the Co2 Fantastic 40 which he believes will be like the 40 largest companies in the world. public companies currently privately held one such as data bricks and open AI who were anticipating an IPO. It's pretty variable. Also, crypto is in there too. It was this whole thing that was really interesting to me. But originally, Google was not on that list, which was something that was really kind of off-putting in a way. I did not expect that, but with these new chips, it is on the list, which is something that really catches my eye.
I mean, I know that like, with the recent development of those chips, I'm not successful tech investors of the past 15 to 20 years or so, like he was $13 a share. Like, he knows what he's doing, man. So, because of that move alone, it has me really interested in this whole TPU versus GPU conversation, basically. , and I'm curious what you guys think.
Yeah, I mean, I know that like, with the recent the recent development of those chips, an absolute vertical integration in AI from the chip production to like the data centers to to the manpower and experience within AI for the past 15 or so years. They are one of the few companies at the top that has a full vertical integration and that definitely will be something that plays into their advantage in the next five, ten years as some of the, the pretenders at the top of the field, some of the companies that might be prominent right now, kind of taper off. I think that'll, that'll prove to give Google a lot more staying power to stick at the top of the AI industry and tech industry as a whole.
I think the race is fascinating because you have all these major players, major companies all vying to be first and obviously you see specialization. become what kind of differentiates the companies from each other. I think you look at Anthropic and their focus on code, their focus on software engineering and they're pulling ahead. Opist 4.5 literally uses less context, less tokens than previous Opist 4.1 and Sonic.5. And I think specialization is the biggest thing kind of going into this. Google is attempting to create this multimodal L.M. where it does everything. I think they're the only company kind of fit to doing that. I think GBT, Open AI, with their kind of, the beginners of this kind of GBT technology, they're the ones who kind of started proliferating it. But like, what is their distinctive advantage that they kind of hold or possess over something like Google? I think that they're going to start, I think my prediction is personally, I think they're going to start to kind of fall behind.
we've pulled out the forefront with the world's largest data set, you know, Google, YouTube, everything that, you know, Google has, a conglomerate, a mega conglomerate, I think we're going to see Multimodal, Gemini, just pull ahead over something like GBT, 5.0, maybe a potential 6.0. I think, obviously it's very difficult to call it, and this month we had four separate state-of-the-the-art model releases, I think I think they'll do just fine. I think Google will pull ahead in this race and I'm placing my bets on them. Obviously, you know, we'll see companies be pragmatic and adapt themselves to where their best fit. But like, I think I think Google and Gemini will probably pull ahead. You know, starting off with like, stuff like Bard, Google started off of Bard. Now they're on Gemini. 2.5, 3.0 was a huge step up. 3.5 or 4. when they do come out. like any forerunner?
Yeah, I do, I really do think anthropic because of their capabilities they've expanded to with the whole coding sphere is going to give them a huge advantage over some other private companies currently just because like even using Claude, I have never coded like, I have never coded like a day in my life, I learned R for like one class my sophomore year, and then I was like, okay, I don't really think this is for me, I was just playing this like, hedge fun tracking app. I was just like, I was just think, like, like, in like literally a half hour. And I was, it looked like pretty professional. It was accurate information. And I would, that was like the most mind blowing AI experience I personally had. And it really like got me thinking about not just call but anthropic as a whole what they are truly doing and how that could progress so far going forward. They currently have the largest like training set until early 2026, like the largest till early 2026, like the largest data center alongside Amazon. So that is a massive advantage. Like, obviously we're gonna see stuff like X Colossus and with Project Genesis, more kind of gigantic, you know, super centers being opened. I think that it's gonna be very interesting. I think the environmental impact is going to be something that we wanna kind of highlight,
because like obviously like these have direct impacts on, you know, water on pollution on environment. communities around them. Like where do you put stop limits? You know, where, where, where does the positive, where does the negative outweigh a positive? And I personally think for right now that, um, it's going to only help us solve an issue like climate change. Obviously, it's a huge claim to be making that, you know, obviously climate change is a grand issue that we're facing. But like, I personally think that the current tradeoff and utilitarianism, like a utilitarian nature of AI is kind of worth the drawback of the, of current like, proceedings of the environment.
I mean, that's a, I think that's a little bit of a difficult kind of, there's so much uncertainty within that statement. that statement, like, I feel like that's kind of the same trap that a lot of the founders fall into where like the people like Elon Musk, Sam Altman, Jensen Wong, they all kind of like hide behind that justification that like the unobserved but expected benefits of this technology to come outweigh the short-term implications. I mean, we had seen, it is kind of hard to ignore. Back in Tennessee, I believe, a couple months ago, Elon Musk and XAI, they had created a large data center in Tennessee and it had directly kind of negatively impacted the air quality and the water quality of that specific town. And it is kind of hard to ignore all of these direct, negative implications on the local environments in all of the areas in which these data centers are being built, or all of the different places across the world. that these companies are planning to build data centers. I mean, take Virginia for example, they're like basically a full capacity already in terms of like the space they have, because that's a pretty big hub for data centers. Yeah. So it's just, yeah. And then it's like we don't necessarily 100% know if like artificial intelligence will be able to like drastically improve our ability to solve these wide reaching problems
previous to the introduction of AI. of difficult and almost like a reflection of like our capitalist extractive society to justify all of this short-term negative detrimental impact on people's air quality people's water quality people's local environments local ecosystems I mean it just kind of seems like another example of kind of like I think of deforestation as a good example like we've seen throughout the past couple centuries. the impacts of colonialism and capitalism and how so many different groups of underprivileged people have been taken advantage of so that their resources can be extracted just so that the next big technological development can be propped up. And this is yet again kind of another example of our pursuit of progress and some type of grander societal development taking priority over kind of taking priority over the immediate physical conditions and environmental conditions of certain people. So it's a difficult tradeoff and a difficult kind of like statement to make that you think that artificial intelligence is kind of this like necessary technology in all this rapid overstated data center production and promotion will be justified given the potential positive benefits. of such a technology, but obviously a lot of people kind of disregard all of those genuine negative kind of consequences of such
Well, I would say that I kind of disagree with you. I think that the environmental kind of drawbacks that we're facing are only necessary and I think that this is going to be something that is only going to help us make us more efficient. So I personally say the pros outweigh the cons here. Obviously we have kind of different perspectives there. But I'd also like to kind of pose the question, you know, with these environmental kind of aspects obviously, do you think AI will ever kind of get to a point where like its environmental impact is minimized? Where like, you know, obviously we're kind of trying to do a sprint towards silicone-based life and obviously... with all the stuff that comes with that. But like at what point is it too much? Like at what point would you say like like this environment we should care more about the environment?
Yeah I mean there are a lot of people within artificial intelligence today that have those types of environmental considerations. There's a large growing movement and corpus of literature and papers that have been published promoting kind of the benefits of smaller language bottles and kind of dispelling this belief that's widely held and kind of dispelling this belief that's widely held that like the more data and the more compute power that you have, the better your model will be at reasoning. I feel like a large but passionate and vocal subset, all of these people that are promoting the efficacy and efficiency of these larger language models in comparison to these very environmentally kind of inconsiderate, more conventional and popular practices, such as large language models, I think. I think there is a lot to be said and a lot to be highlighted about the fact that some of these smaller language models can actually reason better and they aren't as much kind of relying on rote pattern recognition and rote distillation of large amounts of data. They are actually kind of reasoning to a higher extent because they aren't simply just just repeating and replicating all these patterns that they see within data, but due to the fact that they have a larger set of training data, of force to develop a lot more of these reasoning.
strategies that we recognize is familiar when thinking about how humans actually reason. So I think the more that these ethical voices within the forefront of AI research are kind of like pushed and promoted the more of a reasonable and less inconsiderate outlook as a whole that the AI industry can have on its ethical and environmental applications of such unprecedented growth. Yeah, and to add on to that too, the whole other part of this conversation is
the whole energy talk. These LLMs use so much energy and a big question right now is what's going to happen in that industry as we're kind of seeing these climate concerns as well as we're gradually slowly but gradually transitioning away from fossil fuels for multitude of reasons and towards nuclear energy towards whatever other source you may think of. It's that intersection is going to really shape I think how this industry develops within the next 20 to 30 years as a whole and what do you have to say?
I have to say, obviously the energy capacity is being an issue, obviously, as we've been on the environment. I mean, I don't know. I like to post the controversial opinion that it's kind of worth it. I want to bring some debate into this and say that like the environmental impact that we've kind of seen is warranted and it's merited for such a transformational technology. But what if we keep integrating this and we are not able to... find energy source that can substitute the price of energy is going to be absurd that I think that's another thing as well like do you also think that's worth it when people are paying like $12,000 a month for their electrical bill I'm not saying hypothetically if we do get to the the point where AI is kind of like or just just technology itself is drawing this much energy I think it's worth it's worth it if we are in the pursuit of one type civilization. and to where we can more efficiently harvest energy itself, I would like to make a push towards kind of nuclear energy. I would like to make a push towards moving away from traditional kind of power, and I would like to obviously use my platform to voice my opinions and say that I think we should do a move to nuclear energy. I think it should be, we do have the capacity to more efficiently use energy and more efficiently use the resource that we have at our disposal currently.
of kind of issues with bureaucracy that we aren't officially harnessing, harvesting or harnessing the energy of the Earth itself, I would say.
Yeah, I mean, with nuclear energy, that's a huge thing. Obviously there's companies like Oclo who have been doing pretty well, but are still very, it's very speculative, though, it's still very early on to see how that's going to sort of integrate itself into the world long term.
could be a potential future source for a lot of things. I think there's an unfounded weight and an unfounded, like, let's say, scared. I think people are too scared nuclear. I think, you know, a lot of backwards mindsets are preventing human progress or where, you know, people are kind of scared to have nuclear power plants. They're scared something like chair noble will happen. You know, they're scared that a meltdown will happen. I think that nuclear can be...
and incorporated properly within communities. And I think that it's only going to help our efficiency. And I think that we should look to more efficiently harvest energy. And I think that AI, once it's, this is again another hypothetical, once it's capable of reasoning at a much higher level than humans, you know, what if we look into something like artificial strong intelligence that creates these novel kind of ways to actually utilize energy? I would say that's a future to kind of look forward to look forward to ability to kind of progress ourselves that kind of a level and ability.
But what if, let me, let me pose like a scenario. What if the growth of AI outpaces the growth of what you were just talking about severely? That could cause a lot of issues and I think that's kind of happening right now. So how do we address that? It does seem a little bit hypocritical. I mean like simultaneously you acknowledge that like there are such regulatory barriers in implementing. things like nuclear energy and so it seems like in the short term obviously these companies are not slowing down in terms of their plans to to increase the expansion of their data centers and to open up all these new initiatives spend all this money consume all this energy how do you reconcile the fact that nuclear energy is difficult to implement we haven't been successful in the past couple years yet there is no stopping for this vast and unprecedented expansion. what are we going to do to actually solve in the next five to ten years to ten years? these increased energy demands and not kind of exacerbate the negative consequences on a lot of these affected groups of people where the data centers are being built. I would say focusing on efficiency of AI and have making sure
that AI models themselves are more lightweight and require less energy. I think we've only seen models get smarter and actually become more resourceful and I think that trend's going to going to kind of continue. I think that... I myself can't really give you a solution as to where these next three, four, five years, if AI is going to consume more energy, then it's kind of worth producing. But I think at its state currently, a focus on efficiency should be what's going to be what's going to be the natural progression of ensuring that energy uses or energy needs are not like exacerbated, exacerbated, as you kind of said, it's only going to continue to become more efficient, and the math behind it's only to continue to be optimized. AI kind of become, like, become more resourceful and easier to kind of utilize. So I think that trend's only going to kind of continue as we go along and as intelligence itself becomes cheaper.
I mean, I do think that's a good point because if you just think about, like, the development of micro processing and computers is, in general, in the past, like, in the 1950s, there would be a computer, the size of this room, almost, like, like, that has less power than this, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, holding and what I can fit in my pocket now. So I do think potentially that same sort of correlation can happen with AI. I just I'm skeptical about the timeline is what I'm is what I'm thinking right now. And I don't think there is like a direct timeline that can be given on let's say AI is going to use this amount of power this amount of consumption. I think obviously I think the only real rational kind of prediction that can be made is if you have internal knowledge of how these companies are actually progressing. Obviously these companies aren't showing everything to the external world. There's still internal progressions that have yet to be made light of. However, I think that on the trajectory that we're currently on, I think it's only going to continue to become more optimized and more efficient. The other thing too that makes me a little more optimisticistic about about AI is the government involvement we're seeing. I feel like when you buy what governments are buying it's usually a good investment.
I feel like that's a pretty commonplace rule. For that reason, I'm a little more optimistic. It was interesting seeing, for example, like the Trump administration take a stake in Intel and like also the government providing up in Syracuse right now. I don't know if you guys know about Micron coming back there. It's a huge thing the government gave them like a several billion dollar subsidy to come back and build factories in Syracuse to kind of improve the infrastructure of the whole city It just shows you the government is heavily involved in this as well, which is another kind of layer to the whole situation
Yeah, definitely and I think like as is with any like new technology as we've spoken about a little bit in the past like The more the government is aware of like the private sector research and able to like intellectually and like meaningfully kind of directly observe some of the the daily like ongoing routines in terms of production of a lot of these companies the better an idea they have in order to like properly legislate, subsidize and encourage U.S. dominance within technology and everything because another very compelling question, like there's a lot that we don't know about Chinese development of artificial intelligence and a lot of different companies over in China and ensuring that similar to the Chinese government, our government is encouraging and subsidizing as much domestic development of artificial intelligence and technology as possible. That will be important to maintaining dominance or gaining back dominance within artificial intelligence.
Absolutely, and I think a big focus that I'd like to kind of place on these Chinese models is the big emphasis on being open source. I think that's only going to continue to be an advantage for them. And also, it also kind of allows us American consumers to have a little more access into the inner workings of these models themselves. Like you see Quinn, you see deep seek. Kind of these open source models be used in internal applications for all sorts of kind of apps. And I think that open source is kind of the future of AI. I think that closed source models are going to like, I don't know if they're going to fall out of favor because the closed source models will likely be the strongest ones. But I think open source models for builders, for founders, for entrepreneurs, I think having that open source capability is going to be very useful.
organization class we had we had actually spoken a lot about how IBIM they they pivoted away from the think pad and they had sold off the think pad to Lenovo and instead Opted to kind of push more towards data centers enterprise solutions and open-source cloud computing and so back in the early 2010s after the failure of IBM Watson and stuff like that deemed. All right, let's kind of disintegrate away from hardware and instead into some company named Red Hat actually, which has been working on developing enterprise solutions and cloud computing with Linux actually ever since the release of Linux in about like 1998, 1999. And so they had seen kind of IBM and seen at the turn of the 20-ton's kind of the value and the immense power that goes into. using and taking advantage of an open source model because essentially like to a company like IBM They can see something like Linux something like cloud computing and enterprise solutions as an opportunity to capitalize off essentially free labor from other people and and that is huge in terms of them staying technologically up to date having so many
cross-verifying all of the new features that they push, it kind of signaled even then a wider overarching technological trend towards open source technology and open source programming because that is essentially a huge differentiation and competitive advantage for the companies that do take advantage of these open source technologies because they're just able, especially in something like AI which we've established, and progressing so quickly. take advantage of those open source technologies will certainly give these companies legs up.
That's amazing Pierce. That's so amazing. So amazing Pierce. These AI companies, that's such an amazing advantage to have being open source. What a beautiful addition you've had into this podcast. You know, how amazing is that? That AI is open source. How amazing is that Pierce?
rather than just the value, like the direct value of the expertise and managers and employees that they had acquired from Red Hat, just the fact that they now have more ownership and authority over such an open source technology and language, such as Linux, gave them even more added network externality.
more interesting things and sell them as a service to these companies or value. We don't necessarily ourselves have to know how to use these open source technologies, but the fact that they are open source and popular enough to have contributors communicates enough value to these larger companies to acquire companies that interact with those technologies.
Well, the thing is like if we're trying to have an objective analysis of the competitive landscape of our institutional this is a pretty important kind of feature of feature. of their strategy to gain dominance and market power. Okay, but I don't use open source modeling. Why should I try that? Understanding its value and importance will give you a better idea of some of these companies' broader long-term plans and predictive capabilities of where the AI landscape will be in five, ten years. That's the importance, even if you don't necessarily individually interact with such a technology.
So if I wanted to kind of try this for myself, what would you recommend? What would you recommend?
I mean, there are a lot of people, like super technical people, like super technical people, who use something like Linux, who use something like cloud computing, and I mean, I guess, just understanding previous, like, strategic moves that some of these companies have made, like, for example, what I brought up with IBM acquiring Red Hat, just understanding the importance and value, that these companies...
He's gone off the rails. I don't get it. It's time and time again. He can't take anything seriously.
But essentially, something like understanding the importance of IBM's acquisition of Red Hat and similar like acquisitions in the past.
What's wrong with you, Pierce? And I stand by those words that I had said in the last.
You see people as only the value that they can provide to you and what are you going to do though?
Well, I'm not going to do anything about I'm going to call them out on it because this is my podcast. Why would you call me that? Because it's true. I don't think it's true at all. I think I view people, you know, as assets as they I think I view people as assets, you know, as they should be.
You said you view people as assets as they should? Yes, as useful valuable assets. That can help me out, you know. I think that's the perfect way to view people.
Because you see people as only the value that they can provide to you and never the value that you can provide to them or their value outside of what they can provide to you.
Pragmatic? I mean, maybe from like a business perspective, but from a moral and ethical perspective, no.
Well, obviously it's important to human capacity, but if I can make more important to human capacity, but if I can make more profit, not considering that.
Whatever you go to sleep at night, do you feel content and happy with your life choices?
Well, you heard it here folks. All the legitimacy of this podcast has been evaporated before our eyes. And any credibility or real genuine compassion was all performative from Leo Duarte during this podcast. And that is a guarantee. A guarantee.
You know, when they ask me, you know, Leo, are you going to do the podcast? Yes, obviously I'm going to do the fucking podcast. You know, Leo, are you going to let this podcast fail? Bays I'd rather die! I'd rather die than let this podcast fail! I'd rather die than let this podcast fail! I put this shit on my back into my soldiers. I want to make sure this shit is seen till the until the fuckingkend to the fucking end. And I promise you guys, there's all going to be more fucking podcast, there's only going to be more episodes. And I promise you, there's only going to be more electrifying fucking episodes. And we're going to ensure that we get to the bottom of everything. And I understand, you know, Pierce, calling me a fucking narcissistic mock alien. I don't know what's wrong with you. I think you're stupid for that. I think that's disgusting. I'm so disappointed in you, forever trying to have a discussion that I paid for, and you try to make me look a fucking idiot in front of everyone.
I mean, honestly, like, your actions speak for themselves, your track record through this conversation of multiple of the ethical conversations and questions that we've posed to you. I mean, I think that people can make their own decision about how they feel about you and your ethical standing, but it's clear... I think it is clear though, based on the events of the last podcast, Peter's departure because of your mistreatment of him throughout the podcast consistently, I think it's obvious to people that you are morally bankrupt and you have no ethical standing to feel proud of when you go to sleep at night. And I hope that you feel content knowing that you are not going to end up in heaven, but you are going to spend an eternity suffering in the most flaming depths of hell. Peter Montef I just I think he made the wrong
I guess you're right bro. I mean I mean I personally wouldn't say that but I don't know that's that's kind of crazy man I don't think it's crazy at all I think it's well married for someone who you know laughed at my my my business advances although I'm more successful in here so obviously you know he's anyway you know he's a new one you've been you store soon he's But I just think he made the wrong decision, you know, to go against me and to go against my business and the business that I built off my back. I gave you this opportunity. I made you, bro. Like, well, let's talk about I mean you, bro. You would be...
I think I think Pierce would have been fine on his own to be... I think Pierce would have been fine on his own to be honest.
Well, he wouldn't have been found at home, but he wouldn't have had this opportunity, would he?
I wouldn't have been. I wouldn't have had this opportunity, it wasn't for you. You call me one random afternoon in July, and I was like, I'm doing this, I was like, all right, sure.
But you know, I don't want to miss out. I think. I think I think Peter Monti. is a disgusting human being for what he did to me. I think, um, I, I, all he did is ask you questions, right?
Objective, honest questions about your track record of sociopathy, Machiavellianism, and no regard whatsoever for other people. And I think it's actually quite baffling that you continue to kind of, kind of, neglect to confront these personal issues, the heights that you aspire to reach for them. You talked earlier about wanting to make this a more educational helpful platform for people, but like who's gonna wanna learn from someone who's kind of at the helm of this and not really portraying the best image? It really just comes off as disingenuous and then you've kind of done everything you can to fully eradicate any goodwill or credibility that we've built up with our loving audience over here. loving audience.
Obie. Well, I think the audience who's in for me, so I think no matter what I say, they'll still love me. I think that, you know, horrible people can still have platforms and still educate.
And I think with that, with that, we've reached an impasse and we might as well, we might as well, and the podcast there.
Yeah, it was nice being off for the first time, guys. I appreciate the support. I'll be back.
Yeah, of course, thank you so much for tuning in. Have a wonderful rest of your night, everyone. I really truly appreciate the conversation that we've kind of had for tech and business and I'm looking forward to continuing releasing more podcasts and doing more for you guys.
So I appreciate you guys, Joey and Pierce. There'll be more, they'll definitely be more. I want to continue having rational discussion and I think will be rational discussion and I think will be fine. I think we're done.
It need a shot in arm. That's what's going to sell as far as it. So here's, here's, here's, this is what's going to happen.
Guest
Founding staff writer covering finance and markets. Studies at Syracuse University with a focus on financial analysis. Breaks down investment trends and business fundamentals.
