Leo Duarte joins Pierce Berke and Peter Monti for a candid founder interview about Buffalo Web Products: the failed e-commerce start, the breakup of its original team, the financial pressure of continuing alone, the ventures that followed, and the tension between conviction and accountability.
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I think we should start out just you two times sitting though. I still think I should walk in just to have that. Just have it. Walk in my brief case, you guys just think how you're going to introduce a newsletter? Introduce me? You want to go first?
Yeah, I'll give like, I'll just say who I am, talk about how we started the newsletter and then give it to you and you could introduce them, and then sign it and then say, All right, hi, this is our podcast for the Tech and Business newsletter. My name is Pierce Burke, an Amherst College, rising junior, Econ Math Major, and I'm here today to introduce my good friend Leo Duarte Peter, if you want to take it away.
Yeah, so I'm Peter Monti. I'm currently studying at NYU Stern School Business. in school business. I'm also writing for tech and business that's launching or launched doing the equity research reports. You know, it's great stuff. Really, really passionate about it. Not as passionate about it as Leo because he's, you know, the most passionate about it. It's his child, but yeah, he'll be joining us, which will, you know, that'll be great.
we could just sign our papers. All right. And now if we could introduce the man of the hour, Leo Duarte, please come to the table.
myself, make sure people know who I am and know what I'm about. I am Leo Duarte. I am the president and founder of Buffalo Web Products. We've been running for nine months going on 10 and I am the chief business development officer of Tech and Business. Which has yet to be released but probably released by the time you guys are watching this. But yeah, I'll let you take it away. Pierce, where do you want to start this? Let's guide through and let's get some stuff out. Let's get some stuff out.
So I know you've had a long and tumultuous path to where we are right now. I wanted to start it off asking actually about one of your failed ventures the Soam Soap Business Company. If you can discuss a little bit how you came up with that idea, the evolution of how it started, how it came to a demise, just give us a little bit on that.
Absolutely. or direction for the company other than wanting to transform the digital landscape. Dylan and I, and Dylan's my co-founder, he's no longer with me, we wanted to start just by doing e-commerce and drop-shipping, actually. So we found this thing off Ali Baba, it was the soap grinder, it was the Soam Soap saw, and we thought it was pretty handy and, you know, could sell it, right? So we started selling the saw and we made this website. It was made on Replo if any of you guys know what that is. And we wanted to just like sell it for 30 bucks, bundle it with some soap, and just make it great man. Like I thought people would buy this. It's this crazy looking futuristic, you know, soap grinder and it's really useful. You know, it gets a tricle sand out of your hands. It's really convenient, it looks clean and I honestly thought.
January, I'm sending my entire time working on this. Dylan and I have now moved in together and Oscar, who is one of my friends, is also with me. And we just start working and we'd look to bring our vision to life. And I have to learn ads, the meta ad suite, I have to learn Instagram, I have to learn Facebook and we have to just learn how to market this thing and we want to get it off the ground. So we started marketing campaign.
to India and I didn't know how to do the regional settings. I didn't know what that was. We lost the $300 that we put into the marketing budget for that project and we still had a website, we still had a product and we still had a product and we still had a dream. So what we do is we get Spoke Soapars and we get pretty much our own Soam-branded soapbars. you can hold them, there is really nice eucalyptus. Tumorik was one of the things as well and there was a blue flavor but I don't remember its name and we get the soap grinder and we get the bar and they come and it turns out they simply don't fit together and we had to put the brand on pause pretty much so it wasn't the biggest issue ever just not having the correct you know sizing and I'm like I want to speak to the manufacturer I want to speak to Alibabaa as well see if we can get an see if we can get an even bigger soap grinder. So we're in negotiations and nothing really works out. And we just had to move. We pivoted and we got into web design. And web design is the actual main focus of Buffalo Web products that you guys may know about. We mainly target fractional executives and those are people who provide specialized business services for a short period of time. And we sell the websites to them. from Soam, but learning from Soam, we gathered lots of good skills and lots of good experience
and working on a brand in a business with your two closest friends. There's nothing that I feel like could get me close to that feeling. And obviously I'm running the business by myself now. Both of my friends have left and I'm sure you guys are going to be asking me questions regarding that. But as a solo founder, I have found myself and I found a niche where I work and I work and I feel like a good experience. I found a business model that I could really take further and I could really do a lot with. So that was some.
It was a learning experience pretty much, but I'm wondering like, what do you think of that? Let me, I just, you know, you really talk so highly about starting a business with your friends and I guess the camaraderie and that and just a sense of, you know, working towards a common goal, but now you're your, you're independent entrepreneurre, where what's the story. story behind that, how did such a close bond crumble?
Well I'll guide you through it. So it's February and tensions start to rise a little bit. You know we were really angry that some didn't work. You know we're 19, 20, 21, you know, two, all three of us aren't in college. We don't really have ambitions or goals besides you know let's get rich. when the get rich quick scheme doesn't work out and we're there kind of struggling.
Oscar and Dylan and I were friends and there was this night and before even before that we start getting angry at each other, bus really angry. You know there was this one song I called Dylan in the morning and we started screaming at each other. Like we genuinely were passionate. We believed so much in what we built and to have it not succeed. really got to us. It got to the ego. It got deep within us. . And what happened was... Dylan and I don't really see eye to eye on many different issues and we're kind of like we're just kind of talking with each other. We're not really as invested as we were just even a couple months ago and there was this one faithful night we go to visit Amherst College in Massachusetts. Pierce is more than familiar with this because he was actually there and it was a fun night. We visited Pierce's friends. who were willing with him and we had a great time and come the night, right, what happens is Dylan doesn't want to drive me home anymore and that is because I was off, you know, kind of a handle a fireball, I might have said a couple of things, I might have, you know, corroded the trust within our friendship. That's how I put it. and we get into an altercation. and Pierce is in the car, I'm in the car, Dylan's there as well, Dylan is like, so you're driving Pierce to White Plains, which is about an hour drive from my house, I was taken
back, I was kind of shocked, I was like, I could depend on this guy to drive my other friend home because, you know, I'm blacked out, I'm not really doing too well, you know, if you're , I was saying a text.
It's, I am, after great consideration, I am permanently resigning from Buffalo Web Products. And I was taken aback, I was pretty shocked, 15 minutes later, Oscar sends me a message, and he believes that just for business, he's going to leave the company, and he's going to go his own way. Well, originally, lots of emotion. And I was genuinely... there was a fire within my heart that's... I sparked with that night and I saw my two closest friends in a venture that I'd fully believe we were all 100% all in on, you know, start to crumble and start to come away from me. And it was a lot emotionally to take, and it was a lot to just process. I had to take a lot of time alone. I was with my brother, actually. I wrote about him in my journey in the article I wrote, and he was there. He gave me a lot of good support, and I definitely. place emotionally and I didn't really know what my next steps were. It was very hazy, it was very cloudy. It was like you know so much kind of dead in the water I haven't gotten any clients, I haven't made any money, I have spent all of the money that I had made for my job at Hilton. Every single dime I'd already gone in. I had no rebound, I have no rich parents, I was applying for loans, I was getting credit credit cards. And it actually... came down to it where for the first time my pretty much my entire life I
had to ask my dad for some money and which goes against a lot of my character it's something that was very hard for me to do I recognize the privilege that I had that I was even able to ask him it was a hundred dollars I asked him for and that's all I really had all I really needed I was like if you could believe in me that this is what I'll need. because ultimately I can make a profit from that.
Leah, let me let me let me cut you off. I just you know I I to my opinion it's kind of pressing I think the people really want to know this. You're talking about you know breaking up with your partner Dylan right. And I guess part of the reason is don't you think that's your fault in part? because you're out here you know saying stuff you really shouldn't be when you're you're you're drunk, you're under the influence.
Right, that's, that's, you know, I mean, it's right. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't there that night, but that's what it sounds like is you neatly kind of brushed over some things. Yeah, I mean, you're leaving out details around the lawyers, the litigation.
And yeah, I mean, I love these questions. I know, I'm just saying you're kind of painting a picture where you're were putting a partner picture where you're putting it on your partner's fault for your partner's fault when in your partner's fault when in your partner's fault when in reality fault when in reality it's... Take responsibility for what happened.
I'm not going to run away from the fact that perhaps I wasn't in the proper state of mind, but I also feel like it was a severe overreaction and it ultimately put me in a worse place than where he was. His worst outcome was potentially hearing some emotionally damaging things at night and my worst outcome was I was strong along with no cash, no money, no actual grounded future and nothing but a huge risk a huge nothing but a huge risk to take.
Do you think Dylan really needed to hear those emotionally damaging things? It doesn't seem like it's related to business. That's, you know. Seems if it crosses the line. Yeah, exactly. I mean. This relationship into a point where it might affect a 10 plus year friendship that you guys had had a cherished, loving friendship that almost completely came to an end. And for the foreseeable future. You guys weren't speaking. I know lawyers had gotten involved. There was a lot of discussion about Dylan being screwed over in some way, not being paid back from debts that you would owed to him. And yet, for some reason, you seemed to be painting yourself in an overly favorable way, portraying yourself in an inaccurate manner in this interview. And I would like some truth. I think the people would like some truth.
Well, I think I am giving you what's close to truth. I think I was in a dark spot emotionally. and I do believe that Dylan overreacted. I'm going to take responsibility for what I said obviously, you know, I don't think anyone wants to hear stuff like that. But like when there's business on the line and when there's friendship, you need to learn to take a separating factor within those two. And you mentioned my legal troubles as well, and I'm more than happy to open up the fact that that after the fact and after the dispute Dylan used the opportunity to try and ruin my life professionally and legally within the court system he had a legion of lawyers from his dad's company that provided him he met with around 30 lawyers from the state of New York I had only had the funds to meet with one there was a lot of emotional tension I think that happened there and like we you are completely on the spot with the emotional on the spot with the emotional bond. I think we are friends with 10 plus years and we were able to walk across that. We were able to overcome that. And I think that speaks a lot to the depth of our friendship and to who we are as people that we were able to go from such a situation where we were pretty much going to kill each other and legally, mentally, mentally, even physically. I feel like he had some thoughts regarding that.
able to go from such a situation where we were pretty much going to kill each other and legally, emotionally, mentally, even physically. I feel like he had some thoughts regarding that. But I certainly do believe that like we were able to walk and we were able to have something greater. And I'm very happy that everything ended up the way it did. After two months after I get emails from him, we started exchanging emails and I decided that it's all past us and we meet. best just to put this all past us and we meet and it was a very fateful meeting I was on my porch he was at his room and I start off I tell him I'm very sorry I apologize truly deeply and emotionally genuinely for the no-compete clause
that you tried to put him through, you tried to stop him entirely from contributing to other businesses related to the region for months afterwards, putting your own best friend with a no compete clause. How is he supposed to like, you know, provide for himself if you can't even, you know, work in a business that he has so much experience and so much knowledge and he think that's like very fair?
for no complete cause. I was more so worried that he was the main manager of client relationships at the firm and I was worried that because he was so close with these clients that now I'm in a position where this guy could genuinely take all of my clients. He would be willing to work for free simply to screw me over and I thought it was more than fair. And luckily, nothing ended up happening. Nothing ended up coming out of that besides a strengthened relationship in a way where. of us parted ways, both of us have our own separate ventures and we're both emotionally happy and happy with each other.
And just kind of on that note with Buffalo Web Products, you know, you failed with your soap business, what makes you think you're going to succeed or really what's going to keep you going and differentiate yourself compared to other web designers? Like, you know, I feel like this space is over saturated, everyone's doing it, and like why do you're you're going to succeed with Buffalo Web Products compared to Soap.
The biggest differentiator that was had occurred between now and then was I had found mentors and I had found people willing to guide me under their ring, you know, actually learn business a bit more in depth. You can only do so much in two months. It's nine months now. I have my coach Diego Barrera and we had a series of very fruitful and prosperous meetings where he looked at every single part of my business, he told me this is what's working, this is what's not working. And the biggest thing that came to that was we found my offer, and that's a 2950, 30-day website build that we currently offer, and we found a niche. We were just spitballing, we saw different people who needed websites, you know, maybe an accounting firm, maybe a landscape or a plumber, and a trend that's going on right now that, you know, you know, people in the
best that we sell to these fractional business owners. It was a strong niche, a growing niche, and these are people who have the funds, who have the money, and who could buy websites and who wants to look professional, who we said that, you know, we had many people, like there was this one person I cannot name, and his website was made on WordPress, it was very ugly, and we changed his life, and we changed his website pretty much. So that's... The thing is like...the digital real estate. very foundational belief that we have that your website is the front end to all of your customers. You know, kids nowadays, they don't look, they look at your website. It's just, it's just common practice. And having that, and obviously, oversaturated, as you mentioned, there's a lot of designers out there. There's a lot of people who would do it for cheaper. There's people who will do it better. I'm not going to.
plus the bets that I have to compete with. And ultimately the biggest thing that we did to differentiate ourselves was finding our niche and finding the people who were actually hungry for the websites, you know, hungry for what we sell, the hot dog stand that, you know, is at the stadium, sells more than the hot dog sand in the middle of the field, and it's getting to that stadium that we, that's what we were looking to do with what we had. Right, and I guess kind of on that note, you know, I was reading Peter Thiel's Zero to One book and one of his main tenets is you really got to carve out a super niche audience and then build up from that. Do you see your business, you know, scaling into a larger audience or, you know, fulfilling a different niche? Like, where do you see Buffalo Web Products in five and ten years from now? I have a very grand vision for what I can do and what my capabilities are, and what my capabilities are and how I can offer things. and how I can offer things. The eventual vision for Buffalo Web products is to become a digital solutions conglomerate offering agency services such as website building and marketing and offering a portfolio of brand products. And those are currently in the works. I'll tell you about the first one and the first one is pickup in athletic supplement companies.
that has been in the works since November and that has been built alongside a co-founder Dylan Mangla.
So, and I guess my other question is, you know, you've failed previous businesses with Dylan and, you know, kind of just on that, you're working with Dylan again, you had a falling out, you failed your first venture with Dylan, why are you going down the same path? It seems like the inevitable is going to happen. I don't know, maybe you'll say something again, just like you did last time and tensions are really going to build up and who knows, this second business might fail again. I'm just curious about that. What do you have to say?
We're bridging into entrepreneurship and the inherent risk that get into it. Obviously there's risk. I understand that and going into a business with someone I failed with. I view that as growth.
maturity-wise and I'm very excited to see what we have in offer and we have some pretty big You know things coming up. I can't disclose too much regarding that, but We're going to be sponsoring athletes and we're in talks with a couple people and I'm not going to tell you who you know I don't give you all my secrets, but like we have something with pickup and it's going to be an electorate-based hangover here and we're going to bridge it into eventually a portfolio eventually a portfolio of you know, And Dylan is currently researching, I'm currently researching, we're both giving our efforts. And there's a lot of mutual agreement. And it's honestly, like, we've been stepping into, like, what works for each other and what works for us. And I feel like he has been a great big chapter in my own entrepreneurial journey, however he is but a chapter. I'm going to have, ultimately, like, a storied career. working out and I'm happy to see what's lies in the future for us too.
That's interesting. I mean, I'll just chime in my own opinion. I don't really think a sports supplement company is, you know, exactly a great business to be in. I mean, you're competing with legacy brands like Gatorade, Powerade, you know. Seems like a huge barrier to entry. Yeah. And like it would require a lot of expertise, funding, funding, experience. that you simply don't have access to in the same ways, large competitors and key players in that space? Yeah, and it seems like you're just trying to reinvent the wheel here. Like, seriously, other than electrolytes and sports nutrition, it seems like everyone else is on top of this. Why are you trying to create something that's already out there?
Well, I'll say, I never stray away from a risk. If there's people who are bigger than me in the space, I feel like the nature of this. I feel like Dylan and I have a story and I feel like Dylan and I have the opportunity to make something that works. I feel like both of us can create a product that we both believe in. You're completely on the dot by saying it's something over saturated and I don't believe that there's something differentiating us besides the fact that I am involved and so is Dylan.
Well, you keep bringing up this story. Why should anyone care about your story? I don't know if it is a good product, it is probably not a good product. I don't know if what I care what Leo Dorte's story is.
The story I speak about is more so regarding my personal brand rather than just pick up. And I understand that you think that my only differentiating factor is there's a story behind it other than it's a good product, you know. It's probably not a good product. It has zero advantages.
I think that's a bit like risk to say Pierce. I don't think that's the correct wording.
Well knowing how you treat your friends, I'm not exactly sure we'll be putting in these supplements. So.
Well, I mean, there's a monochrome of trust that we have that we've gone on with this podcast and a level professional has not come to expect from you guys. I think you guys have been a bit on the nose with this with this questioning. anything and everything, of course, and that's just how I am as a person and as a brand owner and as a manager that no matter what you guys ask me, I'm willing to answer it. And it seems like there hasn't been a level of trust that I built up yet, and I'm looking to build that now. I'm looking to give you guys my full honest thoughts and opinions regarding what we're speaking about, and I appreciate this line of questioning. I welcome it and I'm happy that this newsletter can get a start with something that is authentic because I am a 20 year old, I am someone who talks a lot of shit and I am someone who deserves to be grilled and I am someone who deserves to have this line of questioning. But the thing is the difference between a bullshitter and someone like me is that I get stuff done and that's ultimately what changes.
things. Sure, I mean, I mean, you talk about getting stuff done, but like, give us some reference. What have you done in Buffalo Web Products? Like, what's the revenue looking like? Like, how, why should we believe you? You say you get stuff done, but we need some proof, some accolades, some evidence,
achievements, numbers. I'll just tell you where I am in my life and I believe I have a voice. I'm going to be giving a voice. I turned 20 in June. I have. a 20K,MMR monthly business and this is off no college debt, this is off no, you know, talking about my own achievements, I kind of flussers myself, right? I don't have any outstanding debts, I don't have any obligations, I have the freedom to go where I want to do what I want, to see who I want to see, to spend excellent quality time with my friends, to love my friends. where I am to be somewhere that people younger than me can look up to. You know, to have their own freedom and independence, to learn that, you know, stuff is possible, that, you know, people who have talent can actually make a living off of it instead of needing to find, you know, I'm not going to say employment's bad, but I offer a different, you know, path to that. I offer something that gives grants you freedom and the only price to entry,
to be something that people ultimately look up to. I don't believe I'm worth looking up to just yet. I believe I'm worth studying. I believe I'm worth, you know, taking no or taking some interest within. But ultimately, 10, 20 years down the line, I'm only 20. Do you think I'm not going to continually procedurally get better and better at what I do? There's ultimately, you know, no ceiling or no limit, besides the one that I place within myself within my own work, I want my stuff to eventually be a case study for a younger entrepreneur or for a younger business owner and be like, oh, Leo Duarte did this when he was 20, you know, I'm 15, I can do this, I'm 14, I can do this. I think that like being in the position where I am is somewhere where like I'm very blessed to be here and I accept that and I recognize that. however it was a combination of talent. and the capacity to actually, you know, execute on all of that and the willpower and the labor that I had to put into this is something that I am very proud of myself for doing and I want other people to learn from that and that is why I feel that I, you know, not deserve but I'm giving myself a voice to project that to others. I mean all of this is all of this is one thing but then I feel, you know, like
looking into something like supplements with all of that. the regulatory barriers getting something approved by the FDA, you know, this seems like a much bigger undertaking that requires a lot more clear preparation, planning, and expertise that
neither you nor Dylan have in order to truly like execute correctly and not have another venture like
Soam turned out. Well, I feel like we're focusing quite a lot on this. I'll say leave it to the experts.
I mean, are you not familiar with contracted researches or are people who could I might not do this and might like, you know, you can pay someone to do research for your brand and you can pay experts to, you know, figure things out for your brand. I feel a big thing you guys are hopping on is just me and Dylan. However, we are both more than capable of building excellent teams to get things done and I think and I think a lot of these websites that I do. for my clients, I was originally doing most of them, now I have a team who does most of labor for me. And I think that's a beautiful thing that I can employ people, that I can give people contracted jobs and contracted works. They're not employees or independent contractors and they work for me and we have lots of respect between us too. But I certainly think, you know, you guys, you know, might not have the most, let's say viable opinions on these opinions on these things because you've never actually ran a business for yourself, but I welcome the perspective. I welcome your guys' interest in all of this.
Well, I mean, from my perspective, you talk about running a business, but... I don't know, to me it seems like you proved your own point, your first business venture failed. You know, that was a, the willingness to pay in the soap market is very low. People don't care about what soap they have, whether it's Irish spring or you know that, that soft soap or whatever. And to me, it's, you know, same thing with electrolytes and health supplements, I don't think the willingness to pay is there either. To me, it seems like you're going to have a repeat of that same failed venture with soap with health supplements. I don't see it working out. And in my opinion, health supplements is an even higher barrier to jump over than soap. And to put such unfounded significance in the fact that for some reason customers would value a relationship-based type of value that they do in a space similar to Buffalo Web products with website making. that you think that would transfer over to something like supplements and which is extremely
I think Logan Paul and Prime is a very important case study in how people can build trust with their audience before a product is released.
Well, I mean, wouldn't you say Logan Paul's violated a lot of that trust? You know, he's very controversial.
I think Prime is a very successful brand and I'm a big follower of Logan Paul, very big fan of what he does. I'll mention Mr. as well and feastibles. You know, you're gonna let's take it a look from your perspective because it seems like you guys aren't as
open to grander ideas. I think we're just being realistic here. Yeah, I think you're hyping it up with your own self. There's nothing else behind this except for you. It just I don't know to me. It doesn't really add up. Doesn't make sense. Let's be real.
Well, for some reason, success will be realized off the backs of two people with no prior experience, minimal understanding, expertise, ability, advantages, in an industry, as Peter had said, that has kind of an exceptionally higher barrier to entry, regulatory requirements, then something like soap even, which had failed. And yet you're going to expect that on the basis of both of you individually, this company will just matrual just matru. I'm not really a successful venture. It simply doesn't seem feasible or realistic.
I think pickup is a personal brand more than it will be a company brand. And that goes to demonstrate that I'm going to be building this off of my back and Dylan's back as well. I appreciate your guy's concerns, of course, and you're looking out for a friend here. You're not really... You know, trying to put me down, however, I welcome challenge. I welcome challenge and I think nothing is really impossible if my mind is put to it. And I believe that when this does come out and when we further plans for this, you know, this is still a very early stage brand and we're open and we're so malleable and we'll see how it develops and how everything works out. I don't believe it's worth deliberating too much or trying to predict the future or trying to, you know, like, put that brand down before any marketing or any mention of it has ever happen. the first official mention of it in any sort of press. So you guys got a little inside scoop. I'm happy you guys got that. But regarding the trust and regarding your guys as you know, doubt of my own brands, I'll say you can always leave your emotions to yourself. And you know, if it fails, it fails. I'm the one who takes the burden and I don't believe it will.
I mean, we can circle back to this in like a year or two years and we'll still not.
save you. I think that is certainly possible. Don't you think you're just wasting time and money on something that's not you know it's not really attainable? Why not just focus all of your time and money into Buffalo Web products? Do something that actually you know is going to provide a good return for you? I do focus on
Buffalo Web products and I believe that my ability to focus on multiple running projects and to handle them to a level that I'm happy with speaks to my own talent as an as an entrepreneuran as an entrepreneur or as an entrepreneur and where I have really trailblazed me for my own self, right? You know, this newsletter is a second venture outside of Buffalo Web Products. I think you guys working alongside I have seen the care, passion and effort that all of us have put into it. And I have been managing my other brand just alongside this and I have also been in talks with an educational tutoring company as a head of marketing and I have been able to balance the responsibilities that come in with that been able to balance the responsibilities that come in with that as well. And I think the level of balance that I can hold and the level of balance that realistically I can do is something that only comes with my own personal talent and understanding of myself and understanding of how to manage multiple projects and to be able to succeed in all all those ventures. I mean you take a look at someone like Elon Musk who has Tesla X, who has Grock, who has X, X, A, who has the boring company, who has all these or make any sort of claim on the controversy regarding him. I'm simply pointing him out as a case study. You can have an entrepreneur who has multiple ventures,
even Peter Thiel, even Zuckerberg. I can do something to a level that they are both happy with. So I think that's more than possible, and I'm happy that entrepreneurship as a field exists to where I can have multiple ventures, or multiple initiatives, and run them all and manage a brand. that come with those and I have undertaken, you know, I had to learn a lot and a lot of time, you know, in a very short period of time and understandably so, I am very happy that everything has worked out the way it has.
I mean, these people, Peter Thiel, Musk, you know, yeah, sure they managed a lot of companies and ventures and ventures and all that, but they have experts, people at the top of their top of their field. But you know you you don't we supplement the supplement brand like you don't even who you don't even have experts in this you know like well how do you how do you don't have experts in this? I well you just told me you don't it's just you and Dylan I don't think either of you have a you know sports
nutrition degree well I don't we have sports nutritionists willing to work with us and we do have experts who are involved with the brand I feel like it's a fallacy of expertise that you were appealing to you are appealing to. where you don't believe that someone like Dylan and I could potentially build a brand like this. I mean, I understand where you're coming from and I understand the doubt, perhaps a projection of your own self-doubt, that you wouldn't be able to run a company like this, but ultimately Dylan and I are going to face those challenges as we come to them, and if we succeed, we succeed, if we fail, we fail. And mentioning Peter Thiel and people who I look up to in the entrepreneurshipicin the same picture as a... them if I do truly believe that I will succeed and reach the same levels as they have. And perhaps it is overly ambitious. Perhaps it is something where I'm like, you know, Leo, you're giving yourself too much credit or you know, you're going out too wildly. But I feel like being able to do that and just doing that speaks to myself and speaks to Dylan as entrepreneurs and as brand owners.
even ran the race like you haven't even completed it. I feel like I have ran the race compared to the disagree people. I mean most people don't have a
business. But what's the point of the business you know like when you can work for someone else and probably make more money you don't have the stress you don't have to worry about that? That is a very real. Don't you think it's you know just your
your opinion on it? Well that is a very real counterargument counterargument around a counterargument running a business.
my own life and ultimately I have resonated war with becoming a business owner who has the freedom and independence from a job. I've never been one to be so obedient you know at my time in New Albany and you know how what that went and with how I found my own character and how I found myself I found that entrepreneurship was what spoke to me most. I don't believe it's something something everything everyone can do and ultimately like a lot of people try and a lot of people fail. Some people fail. people never make it. Some people try for years and years and never make it. I have to a point made it to where I have made generated revenue to where I am a proven entrepreneur and I feel that does differentiate myself from others in this field, some other, you know, A.I. Chat GBT, you know, all those people, right? But there is a very real perspective in saying that you can just get a job. I don't doubt anyone who has a job. I will never respect someone less for having a job. But, you know, it just wasn't for me.
And I mean, we keep mentioning these people like, you know, Musk and Thiel, but they all have a degree. think you can compete with other entrepreneurs who have the credentials and you
know they're probably smarter than you let's be real like you really think you can
compete with that. I'm not the smartest I'm not the hardest working however I have an intuition that never fails me and I actually currently am enrolled in college I'm going to Western Governors University and receiving an accredited business management bachelor's degree and I am honestly on pace to graduate this year. however I may have to push it back to the next term the way they work the way they work. completely self-paced and you are able to take degree, take exams as soon as they are available to you and I have currently completed three exams. I've also received an excellence award for my wedding in one of the tasks and I would say I would speak to WGU as a school and just say that like it's an amazing opportunity. that I'm able to continue college and I'm able to study and I'm able to receive my bachelor's and I personally do not believe a bachelor's is essential to running a successful business. However, it does certainly help and I feel it's best for me just as a career and as a just on my own personal life that I could get a bachelor's.
And let me ask you said your intuition ever fails you, but I mean if your intuition ever fails, why you started soap business. I mean that failed. So there's clearly something off. Either you're lying or your intuition just isn't there like Can you enlighten us on that? Was Buffalo Web Products more of a fluke than a than a planned success?
I would say it's not really a planned success. You can't really plan for success in entrepreneurship. but you can certainly attempt for it and certainly receive it. I would say with my soap company, it's like you can't really expect an entrepreneurship, there's a target and you got to take multiple shots and if you're a rich kid you can take more than one shot. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that expression, but I took a shot. I didn't, I didn't hit the target. I failed and I'm more than happy and willing and open and open to talk about my failures.
shouldn't sell this shiddily drop-ship thing from China, maybe build an actual brand. And see what goes for you and see what you can do with that.
You're talking about learning from your own mistakes, but you know when it comes to this next
venture I see many of the same things, I see many of the same mistakes just lining right up. Seems like you're just falling to the same pit and I don't know, it doesn't seem like you're quite learning.
I think you don't really understand what pickup what pickup what pickup up. and I feel like it's something that's not even talks to me released this or even next year, it's something that's very far in the future. I understand and I appreciate your concerns, however. I don't see where you're trying to question me. I feel like you're attempting to question me in my validity by looking at my failures and looking at a potential failure of mine, rather than focusing on the success that I've been able to actually receive
I've received a promising entrepreneur award from the Founders 2.0 conference to be held in Las Vegas at the Bailaggio Hotel next year. I would say that pickup as a brand has not even be registered as an LLC. It's a very far in the future thing and all the minutiae, all the details will come as a come. So I appreciate your concern Peter, but I'm not really sure where you're trying to steer this conversation conversation where you're trying to kind of move things right?
Yeah well I mean I think it's simple a lot of the you know viewers are just gonna you know they're gonna look what happened to you with your soap business they're gonna say he failed you know this is an over-saturated business with the very low willingness to pay and that same thing is happening here so I mean to be honest it just seems like you're too stubborn for no reason that you're over confident for no reason, you know, you don't really have anything to back it.
Of course I'm confident. Of course I'm confident. Yeah, everyone's got to be confident,
level of delusion is not necessary, however, it does certainly help within business. I do not consider my potential failures. I do not consider that I could potentially fail. I only consider success and I dil...
Well, you said you don't consider failure, but now you consider negative options? Yikes. I mean, how are people going to trust you when you're lying to our faces right now? Doesn't make any sound of playing semantics.
I feel like I'm communicating as much as much as much as much as much as much as much as I can come to trust.
these questions. Substanceless, like a politician. How will the people trust you?
Well, they can come to trust me throughout my success. And I feel like you're here to give me substanceful questions. And if we're finding an interview where we're not getting much substance, well, we're not really getting anywhere, I'd like to question the interviewers and, you know, where you're trying to see this conversation. I've played a lot of offense here. to kind of go over everything that I've done, but I do believe that this would be a more fruitful and an abundant conversation, prosperous conversation I should say. If we chose to focus on what we could teach and what we could learn from you know my failures instead of focusing on just you know the failed aspect of course.
Too much delusion? I mean seriously. Well I mean yeah it's difficult to breakthrough and have meaningful learning moments when we're sitting across from someone. So, so caught up within their own magnificence, unable to recognize the possibility for failure, the large obstacles ahead. Seriously, it's, it's actually unbelievable.
Because I think anyone with this level of delusion, no matter how much alleged success that you may have with Buffalo Web Products, there's bound to be a repeat of the failure you had experienced with Zone, and I think it's in bad faith that you proselytize how you've able to become self-sufficient and everything when you're simply ripe for repeating the same pattern the same patterns that have led you to your failure previously.
Sure, but I mean, some of the core fundamental lessons from that, you're still repeating, and you're still failing at that, , it seems like... you recognize. considering it was your first venture, but you had said that you had learned that it wasn't a good idea to drop ship poor quality products, not have much preparation planning involved. And yet you're willing, no matter how far down the line, to enter another business with a partner that you had had conflicts with in the past. But more importantly, in an industry with even more obstacles, barriers to entry, and yet for some reason, seemingly just delusion is what's fueling you in terms of the fact that this would go differently, or if in some way you could possibly apply your expertise from a completely mutually exclusive field with website design into into these supplements with pickup, and simply offsource and offload all of the actual hard work. and expertise from other people into a half-ass product somewhere to some.
Well I feel again this is in quite a bit bad faith you're speaking about a product that not only you're not inside of you're also set for lunch like in a year and a half two years there's a lot of different things that we're doing in a lot of different ways we're approaching this but
Are you talking about supplements or web design? Who's doing both supplements web design? Either or, I mean, both, I don't really.
there aren't many people I feel like my ability to cross over to different fields and to do well in those different fields speaks to myself and
ultimately I feel a big part of this interview is honestly you're kind of derailing this by mentioning pickup so often when it's mostly an idea more than it is an established brand and I can't really defend something that hasn't really been made it's not concrete yet then we'll ask you about Buffalo web products of course.
I'm the sole manager and I have a team of four. I have a designer, a consultant, a marketer, and someone who works in AI automations, actually. Those are the four people I work alongside with. These are people I've met, you know, through different walks of life, through LinkedIn, and one through up work work work. through up work, it was actually a freelancer that I hired who I eventually became friends with and they work for me and I pay them very fairly. And ultimately that's the team that I ended up building a Buffalo Web products. And originally it was slated that Oscar would be my marketer and Dylan my operator and and ultimately they went through on separate paths. I learned how to manage employees and how to manage emotions, how to manage tensions, how to resolve conflicts and how how to resolve conflicts and how to guide my employees effectively and properly from that venture. I would say that my team now is excellent and I'm more than happy to be the person that gives them jobs that contracts them. These are people who couldn't really find jobs. They were struggling. They were out of work. They didn't really know how to market themselves as freelancers. I built an offer. I built them around them as a team. And we have a very successful, you know, kind of a good. clients, I'm finding them offers, I'm selling for them, and we are doing pretty well.
Well, a big thing that I've worked on very recently was a finance company that was personally referred to and contracted for for website app development and we worked a lot with cloud functions. It was a very heavy cloud project, our first heavy cloud project and we're currently working on this, maintaining this and doing enhancements for this and it's a very special opportunity to be able something in finance. Company name I can't really give out. There's still a bit of shaky legal things regarding that. But it's a very exciting opportunity and we have a couple of prospective clients that I'm speaking to. And I can't spill too many details of course. I'd love to spill the beans, but one of our prospective clients is an accounting firm that we've been in talks with. And we're looking to build their websites as a fractional account. and we're looking to get the right price. this out sometime within the next couple months.
Why would you say you gravitate towards specifically fractional business services rather than more long-term partnerships?
I spoke with this with my mentor and we decided that it would be best for ourselves in this niche because like there's people who are willing to buy from us and we can sell to them. And it wasn't like, you know, I'm made for this, it wasn't like, but it was a market. for us.
I'm a little confused on that. Where are you trying to go with that? What does that mean?
I mean, I think you are misunderstanding what I meant for that. Okay, so explain it. I don't mean that it is my life's calling to build websites for fractional executives. However I feel that is a very strong niche that I could sell myself myself with them.
of Buffalo products, I'm responsible for a lot of it and I'm responsible for the direction and the vision and the strategic vision of the company. I believe that Fractional executives is a lever that we're pulling for the early stages, mid-stages of this company, and as we grow we're going to be doing more broad and generalized enterprise clients and people who have the correct, you know, pricing for this. I currently sell my services for 29 1950. I am looking to a lot of things that I've been. doing to craft another offer and go into brand strategy marketing, go into all of the facets where I feel that we are talented in and really start selling some things. Excellent. I mean I think that's a great strategy. I have a lot better than you know some other stuff you've been saying. Oh yeah you're kind of acting like pickup is like my main thing. It's one of the very many things I work on. I mean you talk so highly of all of my brands. Sure. I mean. that's perhaps to a fault. Perhaps to a fault. Yeah. Ultimately as an entrepreneur I have to recognize that I place the weight of every risk of every brand of every story of every single client facing interaction within myself and the team I've built you know we're a team of killers and we think I think that I've built a
a great system of SOP's where we understand how to react to clients and if you know if there's potential snafoos or potential issues that come with it. that we have a bar of excellence that we like to raise and that's what I've tried to do within myself.
Do you think you have too much confidence? Do you think confidence could ever, you know, hurt you in a way?
But it's what works. I don't know if it works quite frankly because it didn't work with your first venture
But the first one of course because I've learned from it. You know you clearly haven't though. You're talking about it I've learned from it. I have got on for around 30 minutes telling you just how much I have learned from it.
Simply extrapolating old data and assuming that my new venture is going to be. I am using old data because that's how the future is going to be predicted with. It's old data and it doesn't account for the fact that I've grown as a person, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur within these last couple months. And you're proving my exact point.
You're too cocky, you think you know everything you know everything but you clearly have to learn or not.
I think that's very disingenuous. Disingenuous, you're the one who's coming off as disin- Well yeah, but you say I think I know everything. That's a pretty cool way. You just said you did though? No I don't. I don't know at all. I don't know everything. I am, you know, someone like me can't know everything. I'm 20 year old guy. I can't know everything, but I do know what I do know and I do have the ability to research and to learn and to deeply and critically and critically critically learn very quickly and very rapidly.
I mean... I do a lot of inner work, a lot of inner emotional work, and I feel like it's been very fruitful for me, and I have been medicated for what I need to be, and I find that I understand myself and I understand how I can continue. I mean, in my opinion, I feel like there's nothing else I can add a value here because to pay my rent, to pay off living expenses, to buy food, I've been down there and I think that I've only proven myself as someone who's able to get out of pitfalls, and someone who's able to learn from themselves and someone who's able to perform at that time.
I mean, in my opinion, I feel like there's nothing else I can add a value here because you're just saying you're going to make a value here and at this point, like what's, there's, there's, I'm just going in circles with you, you know, you know, it seems like you're learning. Yeah, I mean, I might as well, I mean, I'll get out here, I don't really care. I can't believe it. I can't believe for some reason you think through numerology and esoteric teachings, you're going to somehow am to repeat your failures of the past, and it seems as if this, this, this brashness, this brashness. This egotistical nature will be the underpinnings of your demise.
And when I looked across the table and your mother's eyes, telling her that I'd given you such a grand opportunity, I could have never thought that this is the way you would choose to approach everything.
I understand Pierce, and I see what you're trying to say here. You know, you leaked a bit too much of what you said, but, you know, Why don't we continue this interview with three minutes left? Ask me anything.
I'm curious. I'm curious. What what do you think makes you any different than any of these other 20 year olds, you know, in crypto and shady industries, saying the same exact things kind of extolling their virtues with little to know realism, practicality in in the way that they're executing their business. It seems as if you're another one of them. you know, a flash in the pan, waiting, waiting, everyone is waiting on the downfall.
The only time will tell if I'm a flash in the pan. And ultimately it's up to you to predict if stuff's going to go well or if stuff's going to go poorly for me. And you know, I'm doing everything in my willpower and my ability to make sure things go well. and ultimately, like, like, stuff will go the way it goes.
understand where, you know, the person I had known, you know, 10, 10 plus years ago, it wasn't a Machiavellian demon, a monster. And you've simply, you simply turned into a solely profit motivated delusional, self-absorbed, narcissistic sociopath. And I'm curious about how you turned into such a horrible person, such a Machiavellian caricature. I think you're going off the rails. I think you're going off the rails. I'll see a
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. You're calling me narcissistic and sociopathic? I mean you're about to prevent your own friend, one of the closest individuals you've ever known, from competing, from making ends meet, making a living in an industry in which she had already put months of expertise into, months of hard effort. I feel like every action I had taken from that point on was well deserved and well-merited- own rights and I am unabashedly there without any sort of regret for what I had done and ultimately I don't view myself as a sociopath I think I'm a very well adjusted human and I'm very happy that you're breaking these concerns up.
Well I believe we've reached an impasse I don't think anything any new value will be added. I would shake your hand but I think you're a slimy individual. And I would not want I would not want that that stink upon me of such a morally corrupt
Individual well, I'm happy to hear what you've had to say we don't have much time left But I would just like to say Pierce and Peter. Thank you guys I was for interviewing me. And I think that's it.
Guest
Built the platform from the ground up. Graduate of Western Governors University with a degree in Business Administration.
